Who actually NEEDS a router?

Hardware Hub Networking
1

Hey,

So I recently got full fibre internet after years of torture with ADSL internet (20 down, 1 up).

Now I’ve got a gig both ways, bought a super overkill Ubiquity AP (as a treat to celebrate the upgrade) so I’ve got super fast WIFI all over the apartment.

Now my friend links me this arstechnica article benchmarking routers (can’t link, new account).

“The Router rumble: Ars DIY build faces better tests, tougher competition”

Now I’m thinking “OMG, I need to eliminate the bottleneck”

But then I start looking into it more and I realise I have no idea how to even benchmark and make sure it’s a real problem for me.

Didn’t feel like setting up a web server like in the arstechnica article, so I tried Iperf.

First thing I do is wire my pc into my laptop directly via a usb 3 ethernet adapter I plugged into my laptop to establish a baseline.

End up getting way less than a gig (700 at best, one way only).

So now I don’t even know if iperf is a good test but I start thinking what is the point of all this.

So… my question.

Mikrotik hEX S vs ZTE H3600 Hyperhub (ISP Provided router/AP combo)

Sell me on the benefits of a new router, what possible use case could require/emulate a flood of packets needing to be routed or is this not a real thing that happens during downloads/streams?

For context: I don’t run any home server stuff, I have two IOT type devices, the two other house members barely use the internet, I sometimes game, stream a lot of video, don’t need any advanced security stuff, UPnP is probably the most advanced thing I use.

Unfortunately “Why not?” also won’t cut it, because apparently the setup isn’t easy. Something about my ISP making the IPv6 setup complicated. I’d have to do a lot of googling before I’d be able to understand the comment chain the in reddit thread below.

/r/hyperoptic/comments/xr9qmo/ipv6_with_own_router/

Thank you for taking the time to read all this!

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2

I just have opnsense as a vm on proxmox, and ise the ISP box as a modem.

it works fine, but I never min/maxed it.

I’m most always on a VPN, so cut down to perhaps 700mb/s

I prolly only use 7mb/s maybe bursts of 70mb/s, so really am not worried about the speed.

Haven’t really thought to much, so thanks for the suggestion of the link

(also, I miss JRS-S and his articles on Ars)

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If you are new to fumbling with networking gear, Mikrotik is amazing and affordable, the learning curve is quite steep though.

Also, for room to grow, get an RB5009 over the Hex S.

4

Well, A) everyone needs a router to get to the internet, B) ISP supplied routers are often trash and/or lock down a lot of settings and things you can do.

If you are looking to replace yours, grab one of these:

It is easy to configure and has a ton of very great features, features you often need plugins or other VMs for on DIY router setups. If you are wanting to learn more about networking that will let you do it while providing a mostly easy to use interface. It also lets you get down deeper and run Docker VMs/Containers on it if you want, so you can run a unifi controller on that router for your AP if you wanted to. Tutorial is on their forums.
That Purple unit will let you get full 1gb internet with DPI features turned on, but that is where it maxes out. If you plan on upgrading your internet within a year or two, the Gold SE unit isn’t too much more and supports up to 2gb with all features on.

5

Me. I need a router. Good thing I have one.

I don’t do WiFi. I don’t like WiFi.

Anyone stepping in on my network has to leave a foot print.

Yeah, I had fun wiring up three floors and ethernet cables can be a pain but no pain no gain.

Happy to report that I use a router and my POE works just fine. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Do you, like, not use a phone?

7

Yup. It’s called a land line. :wink:

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Duuude, I rent, so can’t just wire whole house, (yet) but stoked for you!

[Edited]

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9

The house was all wired for cable when we moved in. I just ran all the Cat7 through the holes that were drilled for cable and zipped the ethernet to the cable going to the bed rooms on the top floor and the “living room” (which we converted into a reading room) on the second floor. Yes, the reading room does have a big monitor for watching videos, documentaries, etc. but all the walls are covered in books, It’s a mini-library in there. Did I also mention I don’t have a T.V.?

Who needs T.V. in 2023?

A set of these Crimpers comes in handy too if you’re not big on Cat 7. I did my daughter’s rooms in Cat 6. Cheaper to buy the cable by the spool. :wink:

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I have 3

Same

Same

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11

My last place was a rental. They didn’t want anything modified, banned even Window AC units. But if you can get into the attic then you can often just run your own cat6 cable up there and simply lower it down one of the wall-drops and pull it right out a phone/coax plate on the wall. There was already AC piping routing up through one of the closets so I ran the cable up that way into the attic instead of using an existing wall plate. But you could just tie two cords together and pull the cat6 cable up that way through the wall-drop too. No drilling, damage, or modification to the home needed.

Maybe someone can educate me but I don’t really understand the problem here? If it worked fine without the router then why do you need one now for IPv6? Having a router sitting between the ISP’s modem and your AP isn’t going to change anything with IPv6 routing far as I know. That’s going to depend on the wireless AP configuration.

12

So, I have a big family, everybody has phones and/or tablets, computers, there’s TVs and consoles, a handful of scattered IoTs…nothing really fancy of special, just there’s seven people in the house and somebody’s always doing something.

Years ago I got a single Linksys Velop node on clearance - the original model that everybody hates - and my own cable modem to replace the ISP’s combo unit. Just. That. Was a colossal improvement to normal use, from even responsiveness on just pulling up a normal webpage, download speeds, being able to reach the other end of a small house without dropping out. The stuff that comes from the ISP is the definition of minimum viable product, they absolutely do not have the capacity to handle more than, in my experience, maybe six devices?

Like, my DHCP table has over forty devices ~right now~ and half my kids are asleep.

13

I’m impressed. Take me to your leader. :sunglasses:

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14

And it’s why they can afford to just “give” it to you as part of your service… with or without a fee depending on the company.

I know that frontier’s dsl service is running on renewed units, but they are transitioning to fiber for their business model.

15

Because ISP provided routers are usually e-waste tier hardware that’s barely able to keep up. They often have lots of stability issues due to them being cheap e-waste tier devices.

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My personal experience running p2p software like torrents and bitcoin core node is that consumer isp routers normally crap their pants when handling this level of connections. I think it’s related to ipv4 and nat since the router has to keep and track a table of all the connections and that costs memory and cpu.

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17

Welcome to the forum!

If you don’t have a lot of internal subnets, you don’t need a dedicated router. The ISP provided one, even if only 700Mbps out of 1Gbps is fine. When I had gigabit FTTH, my download speeds were slightly throttled by my ISP between 500 and 750 Mbps, but my upload speeds were always 950 Mbps.

I had a homelab for which I had my pfsense router for, but all the internet connections were done through the ISP router (it wasn’t in bridge mode, because after I asked the ISP to put it in bridge, my pfsense box wouldn’t connect to their stupid pppoe server). So I just went along with their solution (which wasn’t great).

If you have over half a gig symmetric and you don’t use it all, I wouldn’t worry about it. Most services you’ll access online will only work with around 80 to 120Mbps, with some rare occasions you’ll hit a CDN and get 240Mbps downloads of a single file. Unless you do torrenting, where you get distributed files with as many packets as your router can pass, I think you don’t need a dedicated router.

I used to have the gigabit plan for myself alone, now I’m on a 300 down coaxial connection shared among 13 to 15 people in the whole building. With my VPN, which I use all the time, I get 10d / 5u on librespeed.org. I’d avoid tests like speedtest, because they don’t really measure real world speed, but your maximum (which has its purpose, but is not of high importance). fast.com is another decent one, literally measures netflix.

One ought to purchase a separate router only if one’s ISP is charging for rent for the equipment (which is a scam), to save up on some costs. Even some of the cheapest all-in-one routers one can find are better than 90% of ISP provided routers. Also, if one has restricted management interface and needs access to things like port forwarding, or features like built-in VPN, a better router should be acquired. Otherwise, I’d say it’s better to use what’s been provided. Just my $0.02.

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18

Noticed the same. Shaving off 50ct in production can cause interesting headaches for power users.
Thankfully, more capable SOHO-routers can be had for 500€/$ from the well known brands (Cisco, Lancom, Sophos, etc.)

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Sadly, where I live, my ISP won’t let me use an independent router. I have to use one of theirs or they refuse service. I can buy or rent the router but I can’t provide my own. I don’t have a whole lot of options up this way for ISPs alongside the Alaskan Highway and Canada’s D.O.C. statutes are draconian. I just have to roll with the punches.

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20

Have you considered starlink?