[UK] Build log for new Office Building (From Dig to waterproof structure to prettying up...ongoing)

Oh I agree it does vary a ton indeed, … I’m in Dublin myself - some 100m away from the water (or beach depending on tides).

I can tell first hand that in addition to once in a while cold spell - it’s insane how much winds ends up affecting heating

Essentially, for me the difference in how much gas i use per day currently, can be as low as ~10kWh for a mid summer day - basically for shower and other hot water. … and some days in the winter it can be 70kWh. (about 200w /C difference indoor/outdoor goes into heating).

The house I live in is … old… very old… but renovated in 2013/2014… but not to a super high standard (happened before I bought it), and now that I own it I’m very much thinking whoever was deciding e.g. on leaving a fully ventilated attic must have been on crack.

This is all a long winded way of saying you should take care of your insulation well, otherwise you’ll regret it :frowning: .

Personally, I’m planning major renovation ove the next free years with the goal of being carbon free as well as not having to pay for electricity - and I didn’t grow up around these parts… so I’m following what you’re doing with great interest. Those FLIR pics are awesome - they’re very informative.

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BTW Ireland is on my list of ‘visit before I’m too old’ places :slight_smile:

Interesting stuff about your gas usage, I think we have less than that in summer, though the reduction is cancelled out by an electric oven.

I’m in an old house too, and oddly also not been well renovated (battened out walls, no insulation).

Yep, definitely looking after the insulation, makes a big difference, not just to heat efficiency but space enjoyment too. We’re on the same page.

More than happy to hear your comments in a separate thread about proposed renovations. Getting off grid is certainly do’able and I have been toying with the idea with my office (solar + battery storage), however right now I need to do whatever takes the least amount of time.

May entertain to know that my current heating arrangement is 2 x oil filled radiators. One is on a ‘night only’ setting via a smart plug (rated for 13A). The other is on a plug in ELECTRO-THERMOSTAT for the day shift, reason being is as you probably know, the built-in stat of a electric rad is next to useless.

The FLIR is really quite good, helps me identify lots of issues with many different aspects of construction. There are two types though and THIS ONE IS THE CHEAPER ONE THAT I’VE GOT.

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Well, work has persistently stopped me from doing further, but this weekend I was able to:

use sealant and foam to plug gaps in insulation/blockwork/timber
remove next doors fence so I’ve got more access (great neighbours!)
Wrapped it in vapour membrane.
adjusted the electric supply a bit, so I could put the membrane on.
had a cup of tea

The view from the neighbours garden…less fence!

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Well, first panel on, after a bit of thought. I did start thinking, perhaps I should have gone cavity wall, but that was never an option (edit) as the foundations would have to be deeper to counteract the additional weight. It is a bit fiddly though, I’m starting the bottom because there’s going to be another width on the top part to completely cover the wall with a weatherproof membrane, which needs to lap over the bottom one.

I used air wedges (the black things at the bottom, normally used for fitting doors!) to make sure it was wedged up to the top/eaves. While I was at it, I also used foil tape on the joints…I’m going this far after all!

One wall done…3rd shortest…glad I didn’t start with the longest wall, as that’s around 6.4m/21ft long!

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Ahh, today was nice, got all but one insulation boards out now…I’ve been looking at this for 1-2 months

But now, I have an additional 10 x 6 ft area

I do have to take up the flooring and re-do it…and I need to buy a few other bits, but we’re getting there.

Just need to do the upper half with a weatherproof membrane, then I’m done for a bit until I save up the money for the wood effect cladding. Here’s a pic from the neighbours side, so kind of them to let me take the fence down.

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Another little update. All weathertight now, just need to secure a few bits and then it’s good until I can afford the cladding. I do still need to tap a few battens on, but it’s nearly something I can leave for a while.

I’ve now properly cleared a space inside (finally), to put more floor insulation in, then a membrane, then more temporary flooring. I’ve also got a 150ft reel of armoured cable, the current power is a little sketchy and existing before I came along.

I was thinking that I had a few positions that I could use for a desk, so once this is done, I’m moving it from it’s present place, to instead look directly out the window. I won’t be looking at much, mainly a fence and a tree, but it’ll stop the sun being in my eyes! This is the very basic view that I’m going for.

There’s going to be a cupboard within 6-8ft and once I’m happy with the final location, I’m half tempted to put the computer in there and feed all cables under the floor, up and inside the table leg…for fun! :slight_smile:

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The other insulation for the floor arrived a few minutes ago…ah, I liked the space when it was there! Won’t be long though, and I’ll have it down on the floor…family permitted! I think I’ve got it for around £40-50 ($53-66) per 4x8’ 4" board (6 nos). When I bought the bulk amount it was around 20-30% cheaper :frowning:

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Well, a little update again…it’ll be nice to come back to this thread in years to come, when I need to know how I did something…and know what I’m about to drill through! :laughing:

The outside insulation is pretty much done, just need to go around the bottom, where there’s no insulation. I just needs a 4-6inch strip, but it’s fiddly and annoying, so I’m going to do it when I feel tolerant :slight_smile:

Meanwhile inside, I’ve shifted things around so I can start laying the permanent floor build up (insulation/membrane

Next, will be interesting, I’ve had to cram everything up one end, time for moving it to the new floor space…this will be fun.

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Well that’s done…ish. Now have a lot more slack on the network cable, better too much than not enough eh! :laughing:

Desk moved

Aaaand, cleared

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( I may have missed it in previous posts ), What’s your strategy for ventilation / fresh air?

I was looking at these Lunos e2 last year, not sure if they’re any good.

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So far I’m relying on the trickle vents in the double doors, I had thought about a MVHR system, but I wanted to live with the space for a bit (observing energy usage) before doing something invasive. The original plan was to have a combined heating/cooling Air Source unit, however I’m a bit concerned about external noise levels.

I’ve got an Air Purifier for the moment (Philips AC0820/30), which appears to be working well…especially as there’s so much dust around! Also a 800W oil filled rad seems to be doing a good job (priority was noise), in part due I expect to the amount of insulation. There’s 100mm mechanically fitted to the walls (external), 100mm over the roof (warm roof) and 100mm on the floor.

Those Lunos models aren’t familiar to me, so I would perhaps hunt around for some reviews. I suppose from a cost comparison, having slight positive pressure and my trickle vents, may be cheaper than running that unit, but that’s only an educated guess.

The thought process for anything that’s MVHR-like is that it must only be installed in a building that is airtight, the reason why it’s very very rarely ad-hoc installed in existing buildings, because they’re so air leaky. Mind you, I did build this outbuilding with a high priority on air tightness, just in case :slight_smile:

I hope that helps…and hope I didn’t drivel on too much! :+1:

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Not at all, very interesting,

I currently have some “clickable” registers/vents built into windows at my place, while common practice, it seems stupid from an energy management perspective to punch holes in window frames, which is why I looked at those Lunos units.

However, I do notice the lack of fresh air and stuffy-ness in the winter when I don’t use the vents, or don’t open windows for a while… which just hurts my brain literally.

I have some experience with split ac from 10+ years ago back when living on the continent, I don’t think much has changed in terms of tech, inflation is making everything cost double but that’s about it. (-10⁰C a few winter days, 0⁰C a few weeks; +40⁰C a few summer weeks); they’re common place there, everyone has them pretty much, noise is very much not a big deal for something sized for your office size - and just not worth thinking about. It’s more of an aesthetics issue, where do you put the outdoor white radiator/fan box (correct answer - out of sight, towards the back or side of the house, if you can, where you don’t hit your head or leak condensation onto other people).

e.g. for your space size, you could get a small-ish 13k/18k/21k BTU (£500 ish; <£1000) “inverter” (aren’t they all) unit, and never put the internal unit above low fan speed where it’d be audible, unless you’ve been away and need to boost the temperature back to comfort levels quickly (e.g. raise from 5⁰C to 20⁰C in 15 minutes where you can use home assistant ftw). Typically, at low, it’ll produce less internal noise than a new pc, and outdoor unit will produce less external noise than a modern ice car idling while outdoor unit is running at full tilt. (it’s very very pretty much entirely different than those industrial units, that they put in car parks or on rooftops of large buildings).

18/21k might make sense these days vs 9k/12k BTU since most of the price is in logistics and taxes and install fees and other bs administrivia, not in raw materials it takes to build a electric motor pump and radiator (the metal enclosures, fans, and entire indoor unit are usually the same for those smaller sizes). I’m guessing 9k BTU units tend to be very rare for that reason.

With the small cheap mini splits, you still need to bring in oxygen and take out co2 and get fresh air somehow, which is in my mind where something like that Lunos would fit in, assuming it’s noise levels suitable for around the clock operation e.g. for getting sleep at night, and not like bathroom extractor fans.

They claim 90%+ efficiency (double efficiency relative to a small heat pump) and 19dB noise … but I don’t have a good sense whether 19dB is a lot for a suburban bedroom… e.g. how does that compare to car tire noise 50m away?

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Glad to hear.

It is odd to put holes in perfectly good windows, but as trickle vents are a regs requirement, manufactures put them in by default. You can get around them with positive air systems, but that’s just adding more machinery and complication to a situation. I’ve had a client recently who straight refused trickle vents, they were spending £40k just on replacement windows.

Yes, it is noticeable when there isn’t healthy air movement within a building, the other good reason for having a reasonable gap under internal doors.

Split AC units are great and like you say they’re common in the US because they have genuine extreme temps, so everyone has one. Over here though, not so much - it would be ideal if everyone got one, but sadly where I live, few exist. I’m very conscious about the noise I make, because I don’t want to be ‘that’ neighbour. I’ve had a few friends in the building trade offer me a 9k unit (more than enough) for £1000 (supply and fit inclusive), but I’m holding off to see how the external wall insulation works against the heat. On the hotter days during summer this year, I did lean the insulation boards up against the outside walls and when it was 30+C outside, it was keeping a cool 20C inside, so that’s a good sign. As for the house, which does get hot in places, I was thinking of painting the gable end (that gets the most sun) white.

I’m not so fussed about a pc like noise level inside, though it’ll make me a bit sad as I intend to put my computer in another room! It’s just the outside, my neighbours are very close and I don’t want to draw attention to myself. Winter would be OK of course, because people have their windows shut (unless they need ventilation, haha!), but the summer months might irritate. Mind you, I will only be using the cooling feature during the day. I’m going to see how this summer goes, and go from there. So far having the insulation on the outside is working out incredibly well.

I do like you mentioning Home Assistant though, I’ve been playing with that, it’s not bad but I’m not committed to it just yet. :slight_smile:

With those Lunos, judging by the power use, it must be a really quiet unit.

If I had funds/space, I would build 4 or 5 experimental buildings with each technology in it…I might even be able to get funding on that, as it would be perfect to have 5 identically built units and independently show the results.

What I have been casually investigating is the heating solution, solar panels connected to batteries and an oil filled radiator (for quietness). But that’s quite an investment in time and money (around £1000), though it has to be appreciate that at worst it’ll cost £200-300 a year to heat the space. When I start to partition the space, that will in itself save having to heat a larger space. Mind you, as of this morning, I still need to lay the remaining floor insulation…which isn’t that fun, but needs to be done!

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The new view from the desk…nice to look out a window…at a fence!

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Temps outside were -4C (25F) this morning, here’s the temp inside (55F), and a pic of the mess I made with insulating cutting

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That temperature drop graph is looking pretty good considering there’s no “siding” to help mitigate wind, and no floor insulation.

If you put a sensor outside, or download .csv from met office, you can compute Wh/K (how much energy you’re losing per degree of temperature difference) from the graph difference, you don’t have much thermal mass in your design, so the math is easy).


A 9k BTU Midea unit (reputable, in the AC business for 30+ years) is 250-400 quid after 30s of searching… probably depending on last mile shipping/delivery and whether you deal with sales reps in pretty offices that are open till 9pm and weekends and offer you tea coffee while you browse catalogues, … or whether you pick up a cardboard box in an industrial zone in the middle of nowhere.

It’s a commodity, there’s no real difference between manufacturers these days, they all give 5-10year warranty, and your “friends” wanted to take 1000(or 600-750) quid off you for what’s 30min of work for them + travel time (two triangle brackets outside to hold the unit, hole for pipes, bit of pipe insulation, few flexible hoses because it’s quicker to install, some wall plugs and some twin and earth screwed into terminals in a few places).

wtf…; you could do it yourself in an afternoon after watching a YouTube video and reading a manual that comes in the box, you’ve built your own building for crying out loud… that “supply and fit inclusive” better include a few hours of quality therapy, …jeez.

Especially since you don’t really “need” it, or expect to save money on it, it’d be purely a comfort thing for you.

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It’s not bad is it eh, mind you, low temps but no wind today. Can’t wait to get the flooring down!

I’ve got sensors outside, but the ones that are csv friendly, aren’t very happy about being outdoors so a mate is going to make a proper box for it. I’ll be very interested to do the calcs though and see what’s going on precisely.

At the moment I’ve only got my blink cameras giving me figures, but I don’t know how to export the data through Home Assistant yet (if it’s possible).

I should have said, but the work connecting it up also includes upgrading the electric. I need to have a consumer unit in the office - at the moment I’ve come off a spare and have nothing but an RCD socket, which isn’t really good enough. So they would be running a 30m armoured cable from house consumer unit to new consumer unit in the office, then to the combined heating/cooling unit.

I was very tempted to do it myself, but fiddling with the consumer unit and buying/installing a new mini CU is a little risky, best left to a sparkie.

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I see, yeah, having your own “consumer unit” aka “fuse box” makes a lot of sense for a separate building…IMHO.


Btw, in case you’re wondering, when it comes to wiring gauges, intuitively: 1 “mini split” AC system == 1 gaming PC == half a kettle.

Also, reason why most cheap/domestic split system ACs stop at 21k/24k BTU is because that corresponds to 6-7 kW of thermal capacity, which corresponds to 2-3 kW electrical load … or basically … it’s made to fit a domestic 10A/13A/16A fuse circuit, which makes it suitable for retrofits. E.g. many folks who have it installed into apartments in continental Europe end up having the external unit power by the internal one, which happens to have a lead plugged into a regular domestic socket.

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A proper installation of an AC unit (mini split or ductless or whatever) is also going to require a pressure test, vacuum purging of the lines, and then fill of refrigerant. That’s a few special tools and skills to source right there.

I’m on an entirely different continent than you, but £1000 for everything all said an done actually seems pretty decent.

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Yeah, best to have it all independently protected. I’m digging the run for it, not really looking forward to it as I’m using one trench just under 3’ deep so I can put in water in/out, electric, network and phone line (at various and specific depths). I don’t want to go that deep, but it’s necessary to get at least 750mm / 2’ 6" deep to keep the water line below frost depth.

Yep, I normally use T&E 2.5mm for sockets and 1.5mm for lighting. It’s the armoured coming from the house that I’ve calculated as 6mm, though we might go for 10mm depending on final load conditions.

I’d have hoped that was the case, I’m shooting for the Air Source Heat Pump route so I can have both heating and cooling with one machine. Like I say though, they’re a bit loud so I still have reservations…we’ll see! I have seen the DIY fitted ones though with conventional plug, I’ve been suffering with so many cables lately, so it’ll be nice to reduce and have fused spurs where possible!

I guess the AIr Source unit would need the same skills/tools. I think it’s a pretty reasonable cost, my only concern is that the main Consumer Unit is quite old, so it might have a knock on effect of needing to upgrade that too :frowning: It’s not so bad really, I was planning on adding an electric car charge point, though that’s mainly to make it more appealing when I sell in a good few years.