Transposed Keys are driving me NUTS! (Corsair & Razer)

Hey All,

Looking for some opinions on the weird transposed keys on the Corsair LUX and Razer keyboards. The number and symbol keys all have transposed values, making typing things like ${array[@]}, or passwords with symbols difficult unless you're a blackout level typist.
There's no keyboard profile that matches these things. Even the RGB lighting software displays a standard US keyboard layout.

I've worked in both the tech and manufacturing industries, and understand the value of standards. That someone, at some point in a boardroom somewhere pitched a non-standard keyboard layout, and that it's been adopted by Corsair and Razer drives me fucking nuts. (Aside: the pitch was likely "The led is under the upper half of the key, so the primary symbol for the key should go on top..." I wish I could have been there.)

From the wiki on keyboard layouts:
"An alphanumeric key labeled with only a single letter (usually the capital form) can generally be struck to type either a lower case or capital letter, the latter requiring the simultaneous holding of the ⇧ Shift key. The ⇧ Shift key is also used to type the upper of two symbols engraved on a given key, the lower being typed without using the modifier key." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout

I did open a ticket with Corsair and the reply was: "That's how the keys on the LUX are"

Thoughts? Am I over-reacting. I don't think so, but I'd like to know what others think.

Is this because the @ is below the 2, instead of above on the keys?

Because you should really know where those are by now..

Ha, if only that was it. All the symbol keys are transposed. It's really messed up. +/= for example. I first noticed it on the brace/square bracket keys.

That keyboard layout isn't difficult to navigate, it's just giving your eyes time to adjust to the new orientation..

I'm really baffled as to what the issue is? does Shift + 2 still produce the @ symbol? or shift + = still produce the + sign?

I can see this being an issue if say typing a key doesn't produce the required results.

I have razer keyboards. all the keys are the same. purely visual lol.

Shfit += produces a +, despite the = sign being on top.
Shift {[ produces a {, despite the [ being on top.

When you learn typing, you learn that [Shift] + {key} issues either an upper case [alpha], or the upper symbol as indicated on the key cap. This has been the standard for decades. When approaching this keyboard, it stops making sense. Naturally you'll assume the OS has a keymap that represents the keyboard layout, but it won't. Keyboard proficiency should not be tied to a manufacturer.

Say you have a password (password[^_^]), for example, and you have to look at the keys to type it, then you replace your keyboard with one of these, or go from one of these to a standard layout, you might never get back into your system unless you understand why the expected characters (as per standard keyboard operations) aren't being issued.

Or you could just learn how to type, and KNOW that Shift + 2 will ALWAYS produce a @ on a US Qwerty keyboard.

ALSO, the symbol keys on these keyboards are NOT lit up. Denoting that it is NOT the main key.

the 2 IS lit, the @ is not. so its obvious that 2 is the default. Same with [ and {.

If you must, you can look into the fact that the keys (I'm assuming cherry mx or compatable) are symmetrical and move them accordingly...

=+ -_ and \| can be just rotated 180 degrees.

[{ and ]} can be rotated similarly, then swapped.

the number keys you can get used to.

Yea, I thought they were just upside down at first, but they weren't. They're not rotatable. The bottom edge is taller than the top edge. :/

Well, if they're changing how the shift key works, the least they should change the arrow on it to point down, and print a large advisory that it's a non-standard keyboard layout.

One key, the '/" key, clearly has upside down symbol values though, which is weird.

They arent changing how it works. Its the same. Its literally no different from any other keyboard in functionality.

The LARGE, GLOWING keys are the default. the non glowing keys are secondary keys.

This is common sense, and you're just finding a reason to gripe.

Go get a keyboard with no labels on it, it drives you so crazy.

Goodness.

Or just learn to type, and memorize the darn key presses. you obviously know which button does what. And ive heard of ZERO people being confused of this.

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I think I can understand where you are coming from. My Logitech G810 simply came with a non-standard & symbol on the keycap and that threw me for a loop for quite a while.

It's small changes, but I can understand how it can affect typing (especially if you learned to type in a nonstandard way - i.e. not using "home rows") My own personal typing has me glancing at my keyboard every once in awhile, so after looking at the same keys and symbols for practically my entire life and my system relying on looking at the layout while I type, when something new gets thrown into the mix, it can really screw with things.

Overall I don't think it's necessarily bad after awhile, but I will admit, it took longer than I expected to get use to my & key being different. I Know I SHOULD know that my & key is at 7, but personally, I never really learned what symbols correspond with what number. You can ask me "What symbol corresponds with 5? 8? 4?" and I wouldn't know, but if you asked me to write the % of a $5 bill with a *foot note, I absolutely can do it know problem. I know where they are, I just don't know what they correspond with.

So that was wordsy. Point is; I can agree with the sentiment, and if you have OCD it can make matters worse.

Here are some mentions from just one Razer product with reversed symbol keys.



Limited to 5 links...

It's not just me finding a reason to complain. Standards help us to make better use of technology in many ways. USB, display resolutions, TCP, IPv4, TLS, light bulbs, wall sockets, car pedal configurations, etc. Keyboard layout standards have been around, and well adhered to for decades, and now this mess. If I was going to break with the standard keyboard layout, I'd go dvorak.

Found this just now:
"Why do some of the keys have reversed graphics when compared to other keyboards? For example all the number keys and keys like > and <.
This is normal and intentional. The graphics are reversed on these keys due to the placement of the individual LED backlighting under each key on the Razer BlackWidow Ultimate. We chose to illuminate the part of the key that was active during normal key presses and not when the shift key was used. "
~ FAQ for multiple Razer products.

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Well, people are complaining. I apologize for now knowing that.

I think you got your answer.

Regardless. The key design is not a standard that you can compare to USB, resolutions or anything like that. as there are keyboards that DO NOT have labels on keycaps.

No where is there a standard for how keycaps have to be labeled.

Anyone who would get confused by that would either immediately realize they made a mistake and go back to doing the thing theyve always done, or they shouldnt be using a gaming class razer keyboard.

I don't know anyone that would be confused by this.

Have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout

You'll note that even the JPN and Dvorak keyboards observe the standards for symbol organization on a keyboard. Pipe above backslash, etc.

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True, if you only use one layout.

The downside of living in a region with an unusual layout and a limited choice in hardware. Not all keyboards are available in Belgian layout (a custom version of azerty), and some laptops were never released here, so I'm alternating between Belgian azerty and UK qwerty all the time.
All the special characters are in different places, so it's really handy when you can actually see them on the keys themselves.

Have a look here

https://www.google.com/search?q=blank+keycaps&biw=1920&bih=981&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjisa7o04PPAhUCkx4KHYNiA8cQ_AUIBSgA&dpr=1

I get what you are saying, I do. But I feel like youre misdirecting some angst here, lol.

What's the problem with the way the keys on that keyboard are printed?

Did it confuse you? Someone you know?

I could see this as a problem for maybe two seconds. "Oh, the shift key made THAT row of numbers happen. Okay" and then the problem is solved.

I will agree with you there. The color of the special characters is pretty black-on-black. But thats not because of where they are printed, but the color. Just get a different keyboard, lol.

If you dont like the way theyre printed, dont buy them. Buy a corsair keyboard, or something.

Oh no, it's not just the different response to the shift, it's that the characters themselves are in completely different locations on the keyboards.

Compare the locations of the symbols with those on your own keyboard and you'll understand what I mean.