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Thread Ripper is NOT Flexible (Thank you, Microsoft)


#81

This is a fact, it’s more than just your opinion.

Further back it was *NIX type systems, i.e. Solaris, AIX, SCO UNIX, and in more recent years, RHEL, CentOS, Debian, Ubuntu Server, have replaced the older OS’

This is the key factor here, MS validates the hardware. They build their Kernel around CPU, and the type of base infrastructure that comes with the new wave of technology.

After IBM bought Redhat, this may happen more often. I’d like to see a little red hat logo on hardware, “Tested to work with RHEL X.X”
Which generally also means any version of Fedora that was released at the same time has the Kernel that supports the CPU.

I used to run an AMD RX480 that pushed One 1080p 60hz, one 1440P 60hz, and two 4k 60hz monitors at the same time.
Gaming was limited to one 4K monitor, but it depends on the game as to how performant it was. Now I run with a Vega 64 FE. It’s much better at the same task.


#82

Almost all your wants that are not being met are due to companies not doing their best to insure basic compatibility with todays standards in operating environments.

these supposed hurdles are not hard to fix, but rather than invest the time necessary to ensure interoperability they just go and support a single os, to the detriment of the rest of the industry.

the really shameful thing is that the reviews do not call them out on this, and would rather tote their excuses as defacto when in truth its nothing but lies.

and the tech community pushes the whole security mantra as the reason why things must be as they are, all the while we are no more secure than what we were to begin with.

there is no reason why threadripper cant do what you ask except that AMD dont want to , and they should be called out on it, same for Intel .

but not one reviewer will do it . they all do lax reviews that dont call the companies out on issues that need to be addressed. they just sweep em under the rug as non issues.

this weak line of accountability has been detrimental to power user and the over all desktop as a whole. and has allowed for companies and developers to get away with the least amount of effort to release products. so much in so that win 10 compatible only products are being released. something we used to rail against but not any more …

The whole industry is in such a sad state of affairs any more its pretty much disgusting the lies we are told on a daily basis and how they are accepted by the community outright as how things must be.


#83

This is inherently wrong.

As it’s been stated several times. AMD doesn’t decide to support Windows 10 or Windows XP with the new CPU. That’s all MS.

MS made a business decision that was to push Windows 10 as the OS they will be working on.

Windows 8 was released October 25th 2012. It’s 6 years old. They rolled out the update to 8 and called it 8.1 on October 27th 2013.
8.1 used the same base Kernel, and they just changed a lot of functionality (like the metro interface) and added new hardware features.
Windows 10 was released on July 29, 2015
The Ryzen and TR CPUs were made public in February of 2017.

Microsoft announced a full year before TR was released that they were dropping support in Windows 7, 8, & 8.1 for Skylake and newer CPUs. It wasn’t until November of 2016, eleven months after this announcement that ZEN was announced.

Microsoft already stated it wasn’t going to add anything new to 7, 8, 8.1 after July of 2017.

The TR was released in August of 2017.

Why would they scramble for six months to push all that new functionality to any OS they already deemed to be obsolete?

MS is responsible for making sure their OS works with the base hardware like CPUs and Chipsets. The Chipset and CPU has their own microcode, but that’s OS agnostic.

TL;DR

AMD doesn’t make CPUs compatible with OS’. Kernel developers write a kernel that interfaces with hardware. Your major known kernels are OSX (NeXT), NT, & Linux. Then there are other lesser known Kernels like the HURD, why isn’t anyone complaining about that?

That thing is over 20 years in the making.


#84

When Win7 goes EOL, I will just change boot order to have Linux before Win.
Then main VM and main OS change seat, the song remains the same.


#85

But thats the thing it does work on win 8 and win 8.1 and even win 7 , so the excuse is arbitrary there is no reason for it .

its very simple , these processors are designed to run x86 and x64 code … so therefore there is no reason why it cannot be done, cept for as you mentioned Microsoft excuses and downright sabotaging the aforementioned operating systems with a bogus pop up.

and as i stated previously its these companies choice to back this non sense, when they could easily say a collective FU to microsoft and ensure the technology works as its supposed to with out marketing making arbitrary rules that go against the standards that have been prevalent for decades.


#86

Just as a headsup about support:


#87

is the x399 drivers there ??
cause on the american side none is listed…


#89

By your logic, you should be able to install Windows 95 on these modern systems.

The reality is, it would work, if you could get drivers to work with the chipset and the system bus.

You would get 32 bit only. But it would work. purely from a CPU instruction set perspective.

That being said, Computers are MUCH more complex than that.


#90

No X399 drivers for Win7. Seeing how many problems TR has on Win10, I would not want to risk that on Win7.


#91

I just mentioned TR since that is what this thread is about, but I think that MS should also support skylake, kaby lake, coffee lake(but not necessary refresh), and Ryzen 1000 series in windows 8.1. They were all released before MS originally said they were going to stop adding features to 8.1, so they should be supported.


#92

looking on one comparison sites we have here in The Netherlands…
i did find the “MSI Radeon RX480 Gaming X 8G”
for €300 … looking on the same site and filtering for Vega 64 brings up a list of possibilities between €427 to €5.236… The cheapest €427 is the “Gigabyte RX Vega 64 Gaming OC 8G”
i have 0% knowledge of what the best gpu would be for me hahaha…
but that’s a concern for later when i have the rest of my system ready to order…Thanks for the tips … i will keep it in mind… but by the time Ryzen3 is out and tested / reviewd i assume gpu land will have changed…


#93

one question has bin running around in my head skimming / reading this thread…And for me it’s about hardware manufactures acknowledging linux more than they currently do…
it’s al a chicken & egg problem… when more people use it more developers and companies will recognize it… that’s bin going well due to the actions of Microsoft… and valve giving more options to gamers…
but why even care if windows run’s well on Threadripper … it’s a beast of a cpu… that’s more then capable of running windows in a vm where it belongs… That’s just because i feel more comfortable on a unix or Darwin based systems… i suppose… it’s hard to be impartial hahaha


#94

After extensive research I have the solution to OPs problem; Install windows 10, to match modern hardware with modern software.


#95

My point, is that MS stated in 2016 that they were stopping their further support of new hardware in those earlier OSes.

TR came out 6 months before the original “cut off” date, and 19 months after MS stated they changed their minds.

I’m not defending MS here, I’m merely attempting to get everyone on the same page. The issues exist, and the grievance is sound. AMD and TR shouldn’t be the target of this. MS decided this.

When TR came out, MS was heavily pushing Windows 10. I think MS should have stopped selling 8.1 if they didn’t want people attempting to install it on the new hardware.


#96

What OP is obviously hung up on is “”""“officially supported”"""". It seems like they want to be able to ring someone up for support, otherwise when has anyone cared about official support?

That’s the reason Ubuntu and RHEL are mentioned, because those are run by corporations. With people on staff. Who get paid to listen. AMD cannot claim to support “Linux” officially, because that is like claiming one would like to order some pasta. What distros would they like AMD to officially support? Debian? What about openSUSE? Is Arch going to be included? Why not Gentoo? In fact, why doesn’t AMD just hire an entire callcentre to sit there day after day, in case somebody in Brazil who’s running one of the numerous niche distros calls in? That’s official support.

OP SEEMS, and I say seems because I am still convinced this is just a case of someone pounding their fists on the keyboard for a release, but they SEEM to what someone other than themselves in reserve to blame when things go awry. If they do indeed choose Linux, they are going to find that the quantity of people who will tell you what pier to fling yourself off of if you don’t take responsibility for what you did, is going to skyrocket.


#97

You were close, Goblin, but you already know where “close” counts. This has been a very heated and controversial topic. I tend to get on those from time-to-time. It sort of shakes things up… Gets the sludge out so-to-speak. I mean, who wouldn’t want to be in a position to say “not my fault” and pass the buck when things go sour — especially when it isn’t their fault and things are going sour??? I’ll give you that. I have read much material where hardware manufacturers word their products as though they are the ones who are supporting the software. I could apologize for my illiteracy (for what good that would do) but it still wouldn’t make a bit of difference who supported who if the end result is the same. I am grateful for what I learned in this thread and to all those who genuinely offered me whatever solutions they had to offer.

It is good to see AMD listing Linux (even if it is quite selective) on their list. I think I’ve only called Microsoft twice in my life time as I generally like to sort things out by myself. The two times I had to call them was about Windows 8 and it was their own error involving Windows Installer. I had a pretty good case each time considering that I purchased both copies with the licenses from their store. Restoring my operating systems took hours but together we got the job done.

But I digress. I don’t expect that sort of service from Linux. I might want it from Red Hat (should I go that route) but Linux, as I understand it, is a community. Those people selflessly offer their help because they enjoy helping others. That’s it and I salute them for it. No, what I am whining and grumbling about is that I have to make a whole lot of big changes I don’t really have time for because I can’t use the operating systems I’m most familiar with on Thread Ripper. Yes, I still have a hard time believing AMD didn’t at least have enough clout with Windows to at least get them to support Windows 8.1 but then again, it looks like Intel didn’t have much going for them in that way either. It’s a conspiracy, I tell ya!!!

All kidding aside, i’m stuck where I am and for me it’s no fun at all. I will be clear on this: I will never, never have Windows 10 on any of my PCs. That is a personal choice, I realize, and probably a good reason for me to be a full fledged Linux user. But there is a fly in the ointment and I think you sense it but the blame isn’t on AMD for this. Evidently Microsoft rendered it this way for both AMD and Intel. Wow. Microsoft sure has a lot of clout, huh? Alas, the fly in the ointment is not to be laid at the feet of Microsoft either. No, in this regard Intel is to be blamed.

Now this is the first time I openly and unequivocally blame any company for any thing other than what Microsoft has done to make both Intel and AMD (dare I say it…) NOT Flexible. Here it is:

Spectre/Meltdown

That’s actually where I began this little rant of mine because I thought it would be better addressed on that thread. I was corrected and told to start a new thread. I did just that. I’m really feeling the squeeze here. AMD and Intel won’t let me have what I want because of what Microsoft did and I am not particularly thrilled about that monster that lurks over the heads of every Intel user. All my PCs use Intel CPUs. (Save one very old laptop I never use.) All my family uses Intel. (And yeah, I’m the one to be blamed for that.) So I keep running into wall after wall after wall all because I don’t want to dance with Microsoft in a fashion that does not become me. So it stands to reason that I am just not that flexible either. Methinks in the long run, even if it is off a short peer, I will find a way. One thing is certain: It won’t be Windows 10.


#98

That’s not very flexible of you.


#99

yes you do.
what do you want? What are you trying to achieve?
50 words or less, please.


#100

I don’t think he even knows homie.


#101

CHESSTUR:

You’ve gotten to the root of your frustrations, being that Microsoft has explicitly chosen to end support for older systems. If you wish to respond to the other members, please let me know in a direct message and I will unlock this thread.

However, it seems to have moved beyond ThreadRipper to Intel, Microsoft, and other laments that would be better served in a more casual, off-topic discussion or a less focused thread.

Definitely let me know if you want to continue this, but I think you got your point across, and you got some great insight and clarification into what is going on. I don’t want this discussion to derail further into things not ThreadRipper.