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Thread Ripper is NOT Flexible (Thank you, Microsoft)


#61

Thank you for that. I’ll keep it in mind.


#62

Windows 7 came out almost 10 years ago.

In tech time frames that is ancient.

For reference, in 2009, we were still running core 2 quads at the high end. On the AMD side, these were the days of AMD’s Phenom II 6 core being state of the art.

Core i series was not even a thing.


#63

I’d rather not look at it from Microsoft’s perspective but it would seem I have little choice if I want to use their product. From my own perspective (which is what I’m sharing here) Windows 10 was only released 4 years ago. Windows 8.1 was only released 6 years ago and there is still support for it for a good many years. Windows XP, on the other hand, was released 18 years ago. Now I can fully appreciate Thread Ripper not working with Windows XP (even if it was a pretty decent operating system in its day) and I can comprehend Thread Ripper not working with any “unsupported” Windows O/S. Microsoft’s idea of putting the latest operating system on a brand new build is fine but in the past until now even CPU and motherboard manufacturers would advertise that their platforms worked with a number of supported operating systems, that is to say more than one Windows operating system. Before I made this post I was not aware that Microsoft was the cause of this but to be fair, once I was informed of it I acknowledged that I had little doubt that they were. Again. Based on what Microsoft has been doing to their clients lately it really should not come as a surprise. I have little choice but to roll with the punches and I certainly intend to. I will find my own way of coping with this even it means being vulnerable to Spectre/Meltdown exploits for the next ten years.

As for the Enterprise environment I think your’e comparing apples to oranges. Yes, some commercial sectors are still running Windows XP for that matter. I’m not suggesting that they should. Unless I am mistaken Thread Ripper was not exclusively designed for an Enterprise environment but for what exclusivity they seem to be designed for I am compelled to say that I am very disappointed. Just because Microsoft forced AMD to be so rigid does not mean that Thread Ripper is flexible. In my view it isn’t and in my view there are other platforms still in existence that are more flexible than Thread Ripper. This is my observation. Who knows what the future will bring?

I am grateful for the readers here who brought it to my attention why Thread Ripper is not flexible. I feel badly for AMD and all those CPU manufacturers who are so beholden to Microsoft that they’re only permitted to advertise that they are limited to one Windows operating system only. I think for me, the writing is on the wall: I need to get completely away from Windows. Evidently, they’re taking the monopoly game to a new level and I’m not interested in playing. I like my options.

Thank you for the clarification.


#64

Personally, I do not have a problem with MS not supporting Windows 7 on Threadripper since it was out of “mainstream support” when TR launched.

However, Windows 8.1 should have gotten support since it was still in “mainstream support” when TR launched. When Windows 8 launched, MS said that they would add features for five years, then another five years of security/bug only support, which respectively are the “mainstream” and “extended support” periods. TR launched in that first five year window, and yet MS did not add support for it in windows 8.1.

As said above, both OSes can be made to work on TR, but neither is officially supported.


#65

This is why:

  • Software aupport is Microsoft’s responsibility

There is nothing AMD can do in this instance. Even worse than not doing anything, Microsoft are deliberately coding windows update to NOT UPDATE machines with what Microsoft deem to be unsupported CPUs.

Even if AMD could and did do whatever they could to make threadripper work (and likely, it will run Windows 7 and 8 with compatibility drivers anyway, maybe even later drivers due to OS compaibiltiy between drivers for AMD64 versions of Windows) - MICROSOFT have deliberately coded windows update to check for the later model CPUs and not run.

This isn’t corner cutting on AMD’s part, and it isn’t really corner cutting on Microsoft’s part.

Microsoft is being actively hostile to your desires to run Windows 7 or 8 on late model hardware.

Just like threadripper, anything more recent than skylake is “not supported” for Windows 7 or 8. If you’re running windows 7 or 8.x on anything more recent than Skylake, you have been “not supported” since July 2017.

FYI:


#66

It’s simple.

Because it ISN’T supported. Microsoft DOESN’T support it on new hardware.

PERIOD.

Why is that so hard to understand?


#67

@CHESSTUR the way this works is very simple : AMD submits code to Microsoft and Microsoft chooses where and how to stick that in their product.

I saw you came to that realization, but it was a bit long-winded so I’m just concluding what’s been said more succinctly for the readers.


#68

Now, now… No need to get upset.

Instead, try describing what supported means in this context? Software can be very foreign to the uninitiated.


#69

Apparently not.

Because Windows 8.1 IS an “unsupported” Windows O/S on new hardware.

It’s that easy.

Thunderbolt. Intel owns Thunderbolt. Intel doesn’t “support” it on Linux.

It’s that easy.

AMD is not “inflexible” because of Intel’s, or Microsoft’s lack of “support”.

For you, more problems.


#70

It’s not about what “supported means”. It is the inability to understand what “unsupported” means.

Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 are “unsupported” OS’s, by Microsoft on any “new” CPUs. Threadripper is a “new” CPU.

And there appears to be willingness to understand/accept that fact.


#71

Neither my 1950x system nor my 2990wx system have ever had Windows installed on them bare metal. Haven’t run in to raid issues (dont use MB raid though), graphics issues (excluding vfio passthrough related issues which in itself is pretty cutting edge for gaming) or general stability issues. I tend to lean more towards rolling release distros so maybe I just upgrade kernels frequently enough to not notice when issues like this crop up. Had lots of issues with Linux and NUMA on my 1950x but they were all resolved as of 4.15. The 2990wx has run flawless for me since kernel 4.18 (haven’t tried anything lower)


#72

Simply put their is no money in making it compatible with linux. Tallent and effort goes where the money is. I’d Personally Love it if windows 7 pro did threadripper in an easy way.

Market shares for os’s as of December 2018

Windows 7 40.86%
Windows 10 36.37%
Mac OS X 10.12 1.71%
Linux 1.45%

Sources sited
https://netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?options={"filter"%3A{"%24and"%3A[{"deviceType"%3A{"%24in"%3A["Desktop%2Flaptop"]}}]}%2C"dateLabel"%3A"Trend"%2C"attributes"%3A"share"%2C"group"%3A"platformVersion"%2C"sort"%3A{"share"%3A-1}%2C"id"%3A"platformsDesktopVersions"%2C"dateInterval"%3A"Monthly"%2C"dateStart"%3A"2018-01"%2C"dateEnd"%3A"2018-12"%2C"segments"%3A"-1000"}


#73

I probably shouldn’t even be here, but can someone tl;dr Op’s point? Tbh a lot of their posts are extremely long and I gave up halfway through. What I did manage to glean was “Chip bad, chip no do 8.1”. Is that it? If so, why not use 10? Is 10 not just 8.1 but with a different sticker? From what little I know about Linux, new hardware [which this is] means riding the kernel release wave until all the bugs are out, so you’re not guaranteed a quick fix either way.

I don’t understand this thread in general, but I would say to the OP: calm down, dude. Calm down. It’s going to be fine, you’re going to figure something out eventually. It’s going to work out and you don’t need to give yourself an ulcer.


#74

I’m not sure about this, but can’t you just use wsus for downloading the updates manually?


#75

They don’t ever want 10, they want 8.1 and 7 and Linux, none are officially supported with the seal of approval, does not want to look into if they are actually possible (they are) and won’t listen or change their mind in the face of endless help and assurances.

Want everything to Just Work TM with out doing anything other than press install.


#76

Haven’t tried. But either way for most home users setting up and maintaining WSUS is a bit beyond “reasonable”


#77

i have to say i agree with you Chesstur.
(bit of background on me)…
As an older Unix admin im transitioning to Linux (from AIX) and after having documented all my work and shipping it to India.
i’m currently enjoying sum time of… helping out my parents and wife with here college and looking what to do next…
Currently i’m running on a older macbook pro i7 mid 2012. i bought it on January 2013 and payed €2300 upgraded the mem from 8 to 16gb added the best SSD (512Gb) i could find at that time. (OCZ)…
The reason why i went with this drive is that it had Linux and OSX support, and an active forum…
Unlike Samsung at that time, that did not have a good forum with techs that discussed linux and had nice linux tools for it…

Main reason why i like to run OSX is that it’s stays out of my way … or it used to do…
And everything just works… no driver hassle , applications work great… but i don’t like where apple is taking the OS.
i also have an older mac-mini late 2009 that i had to hack so it can run Mojave (almost feels like a hackintosh).
also upgraded that from 4gig to 8gig mem… and it’s able to do sum light browsing even 1080 youtube not full screen hahaha…

and even sum light VirtualBox…(because i wanted to play with vagrant free with virtualbox ) (and vagrant on vmware costs €75)

My macbook pro does a lot better with a new licence upgrade for vmware Fusion…
Every year apple brings out a new os ,vmware follows with a new release asking a premium…
i don’t mind paying for software but i would really love to skip one year …so that’s what i do now…

Why am i looking at AMD ???
i really like to move away from Apple and use Fedora 100% of the time…
i have heard , read that virtualisation on RHEL can be very powerful even companies that provide online gaming use it…
(i believe Linus did an episode showing a cloud gaming company)…cool…

I watched and liked watching @Wendell talk about Ryzen and Threadripper for sure…
and have always said when this laptop dies… or i’m finally fed up with the constant heating and fan management i was going to get a new Ryzen or Threadripper machine…

i have never build a computer pfff at 42yr of age …shame…last time i assembled the parts for a machine the store
gave me the opportunity to let them build it for me with one year of warranty for around €30 or something…
that’s a no brainer… at that time… no i want to do it myself…

When spending such a big chunk of my hard urned money i would love a bit of certainty, or at least now the company i buy from
has tested something besides windows…(loved reading RHEL under *OS support on the amd site)…
My start for building a new system is looking around the web, watching @Wendell of course…
And then going on the manufacturer site looking at compatibility lists.
Like what mem, what motherboards has bin tested… and so forth…

in my humble opinion Unix and last couple of years Linux has dominated the Server world…
So when a company uses words like “workstation” or “Professional” it had better mention the dominate operating system on the market… What else would you call someone like @Wendell ?? if not a pro user ??
i also believe the mention of Windows is because Microsoft has the $$ to validate hardware and look at the big picture…
Something like that would be great for Linux… Companies behind RHEL and Ubuntu need to combine power and make that happen…
i would be willing to pay a small fee towards that…

One thing i don’t like is hardware manufactures that build utilities that only run on windows…
what Asus does for example… but when people build great firmware / software that runs on their hardware they are
happy to mention it… like on their routers , for example…

if i’m going to buy a workstation motherboard pay the premium i would expect it to have drivers/programms that run
on at least two dominate operating systems… say Windows and RHEL… i mean RHEL is now IBM is it not… !!

reading and watching the rummors about the next ryzen and threadripper line …
i’m excited and hoping this year would mark my transition to full time Linux…
Only thing i’m not sure of is a nice silent gpu preferably one that is able to output 4K for multiple displays…
Build my self a @Wendell setup you know more monitors than any human can ever need…ahhaha
i don’t game on my pc… so it doesn’t need to be a €600 gpu… finding a passive cooled gpu is impossible…
so will see when the time comes…
Also i would go with an AMD gpu because i don’t like the way nvidia is behaving when it comes to opensource…
(how did Linus put it f…k nvidia …) hahahha … as i don’t care about game performance rather how well
it plays with linux that’s settled…

oh btw thunderbolt support , external storage, multiple displays…you name it… intel should be sharing this
but display port to hdmi works great so if not … so be it…

Also reading you previous comment about raising a generation of female computer geeks that code… very cool…


#78

Thats of course fair enough.
But unfortunately if you tempt to stay on an EOL OS,
it will need some time and effort to keep it going.
At some point you might ask yourself how much sense it makes to fight against obsolescence.


#79

This is incorrect.
AMD lists
Windows OS 10
RHEL
Ubuntu

What we know about Linux distributions means that we know it will work with all the rest of them as long as their Kernel versions are at least X where X is the kernel that says it’s supported.


#80

Yeah I was oversimplifying. Even at that this is not an accepted though. So beyond help or explaining at this point.