The Ancient Computer Thread!

I’ve now purchased a MIST to emulate my ancient home computers using FPGA hardware. It is really, really good and for me much better than software emulation or keeping and maintaining the actual old computers.

I’ve got different SD cards with different cores and roms so I can quickly switch between the ST and Amiga 500 or 1200 with a hard disk and Workbench 3.14.

A 68000 CPU implemented in an FPGA is more convincing than an emulated one :slight_smile:

from: https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=97

MIST is now supporting many machines:

  • ST/STE (also on SCART 15KHz)
  • Amiga 500/600/1200 ( AGA CORE BETA core)
  • C64 (partially - still developed)
  • Atari 8bit ( 96%)
  • Collecovision
  • ZX81
  • Atari 2600
  • ZX Spectrum with AY, also with DIVMMC and ESXDOS
  • SEGA GENESIS
  • Apple
  • MSX
  • AMSTRAD CPC (BETA)
  • many more … ( already or in development…)

Requirements: ( For potential compatibility issues see the peripherals wiki page)

  • USB keyboard
  • micro USB phone charger for power supply (everyone has it home already))
  • SD card (1GB recommended)
  • VGA display
  • USB mouse
  • set of PC speakers
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Back in 95 I got on the Windows 95 hypetrain
Paid 40 bucks for Internet Explorer
image
Later MS figured out they can kill off the competition by giving it away for free.
It was my favorite version frankly, much faster then later versions.

Oh thats buuuuuuuuuuuuuuullshit. Ugh. I want one so bad but they dot’t even support AGA all the way.

Bah, later then.

inb4 linux reee

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I’d say that the AGA support is actually better implemented than the 68020 CPU.

All AGA games I have tried worked without hitch. I can’t speak for productivity software, but if people are into that WinUAE with Picassio support/emulation is probably of more use.

Anyhow, when I set up Workbench 3.1.4 with Best Workbench v1.1 patches and enhancements it then crashed on boot, Yaayy Guru Meditation :smiley:
Turns out Best Workbench adds better 68020 support and the files need to be removed for minimig and mist boards as the cores are lacking full support (and no FPU implementation).

As a former owner of an A600HD, a CD32 and a couple of A1200’s with different expansions (030 @ 40MHz and 8MB being the best one) all I can say they have done a pretty good job. My last real Amiga’s were sold in 2014/5 and this gives a very similar experience without the hassle (space, capacitor replacement, dealing with floppies etc.) whilst using a modern monitor, keyboard and mouse.

Overall, if you get the chance one of these or the newer Mister setups is definitely a good thing if you love old games. I need to set mine up as a C-64 next :smile:

Stolen screenshot, but mine gives the same SysInfo result - note the 88MHz clock-speed. I wish the old 68020 used those frequencies :smiley:

image

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Speaking of old Motorola CPU’s gotta love this old article:

(This article originally appeared in the Mercury News on April 10, 1989.)

OK, chip-watchers, time to break out the pretzels and beer, settle back and enjoy the show as some of America’s most sophisticated technology companies slug it out over who will build the brains of tomorrow’s computers.

Welcome to the microprocessor wars, round four.

Today, Intel Corp. of Santa Clara will take the robe off its newest contender, the long-awaited 80486. Meanwhile, archrival Motorola Inc. of Schaumburg, Ill., is tying the gloves on its latest wonder chip, the 68040.

By high-tech standards, the rivalry is an ancient one. Intel and Motorola have been trying to top each other’s microprocessors for more than a decade.

But this time, industry oddsmakers say the two companies will find themselves vying in markets that have undergone important changes since they last fielded champions. And both will face a new threat from competing chips based on an upstart technology that has turned what used to be a two-company contest into a bench-clearing brawl.

“The amount of confusion out there is as high as I’ve ever seen it, ” says Drew Peck, a technology analyst with Donaldson, Lufkin & Jenrette in New York. “Motorola and Intel are well- situated to become the microprocessor standards of the future. But right now, it’s a tossup as to who’s going to come out on top.” As predictable extensions of familiar product lines, neither chip is much of a surprise. But both promise a whopping dose of the computer industry’s most sought-after commodity — speed. Computers built around the 68040 and the 486 — the first of which will probably debut in mid-1990 — will work two to three times faster than today’s machines, approaching the power of multimillion-dollar mainframes.

Behind that extra muscle are some extraordinary design feats. Motorola’s 68040 boasts 1.2 million transistors, the tiny on-off switches that microprocessors use to manipulate data. Intel’s 486 chip is expected to be almost as dense, packing more than 1.1 million transistors onto a thumbnail- sized slice of silicon. By contrast, the much-ballyhooed 80386, the 486’s predecessor and the engine of many powerful business computers, has 275,000 transistors.

Both processors also provide a high level of integration — combining more of a computer’s functions onto a single chip. In addition to basic microprocessor tasks, the 68040 and 486 set aside space for frequently used data and instructions traditionally stored in separate memory chips. The two also include special “floating-point” math units designed to tackle the huge volume of number-crunching used in graphic simulations and spreadsheet calculation.

“From a technology point of view, both chips are extremely similar, ” says Michael Slater, editor of the Microprocessor Report in Palo Alto.

The companies’ customers, however, are not. Intel scored an important early victory when its chips were adopted by International Business Machines Corp. for use in its personal computers. IBM clone makers such as Compaq Computer Corp. quickly followed suit, virtually assuring Intel of exclusive access to the IBM-compatible PC market.

Motorola, meanwhile, persuaded Apple Computer Inc. of Cupertino to use the 68000 line for its popular Macintosh family of personal computers. Motorola also dominates in technical work stations, supplying chips to companies such as Sun Microsystems Inc. of Mountain View and Hewlett-Packard Co. of Palo Alto, which specialize in computers for the engineering market.

Last year, Intel and Motorola were neck-and-neck in sales of 32-bit microprocessors — the same class of chips as the 68040 and the 486. While neither of the new chips is likely to give one company an advantage over the other, analysts say several factors in the computer markets are beginning to skew the race.

For one thing, some believe Intel’s 486 will have trouble finding a home in the personal computer market. Computer makers are only now absorbing the 386, and at an expected price of nearly $1,000, the 486 would push the cost of a computer well into the $15,000 range. Andrew Allison, a computer industry consultant in Los Altos, says computer makers will likely decide the extra power of the 486 simply isn’t worth it, given the everyday tasks that make up the bulk of desk-top computing. At least for now.

“How much faster do I want my word-processing program to run, given that it’s already faster than my fingers?” he asks. For now, at least, “the applications for all that power aren’t really there yet.”

That could shift Intel’s focus to other parts of the computer spectrum. Intel already has one customer for the 486: Sequent Computer Systems Inc. of Beaverton, Ore., which plans to string the chips together into mainframe machines. But for the bulk of its sales, some observers think Intel will start poaching in Motorola’s territory — technical work stations — where the need for more power has already attracted some fast new competition.

“The 486 will bring Intel into a whole new market it’s never been in before, ” says Slater of the Microprocessor Report. “They have a chance to sway some of Motorola’s customers. . . . The problem is all the RISC stuff got there a year ago. It’s not clear that a lot of that business hasn’t already been spoken for.”

RISC, short for reduced-instruction set computing, is rapidly becoming the darling of computer designers. By streamlining the path for relatively simple and often-used instructions, RISC processors can move data many times faster than conventional chips.

In the past two years, a number of companies, including Sun and Mips Computer Systems Inc. of Sunnyvale, have used RISC to elbow their way into the microprocessor market. The technology has some limitations — RISC is not appropriate for all computing applications, and the software for such machines is still being developed. But for a number of work-station makers, the quick speed fix promised by RISC has proved to be an irresistible attraction.

That has put new pressure on Motorola’s 68000 family. Several longtime Motorola customers, including Sun and Apollo Computer Inc. of Chelmsford, Mass., now build their most powerful work stations around their own RISC chips. And in an effort to attract software developers, both Sun and Mips have lined up other semiconductor companies to make and sell their RISC designs.

“We recognized that the technology found in traditional microprocessors was not really going to be able to provide us with the performance we needed, ” says Bill Keating, Sun’s director of technology marketing. “If we’d waited for Motorola, we would still be waiting.”

That pushed Motorola to introduce its own RISC chip, the 68000. And Intel, a well-known RISC detractor, surprised many in the industry when it rolled out the 80860 RISC processor in February. Analysts say that by betting on both horses, Motorola and Intel hope to forestall their RISC competitors while using faster conventional products like the 68040 and 486 to prevent further defections.

As the company with the most to lose, Motorola has been working overtime to smooth customer feathers. Motorola gave reporters an early peek at the 68040 two weeks ago, a move many consider deliberately timed to coincide with Intel’s 486 announcement. And last week, the company announced a souped-up version of its 68030 chip that theoretically could keep pace with even the fastest RISC chip. Yet when it comes to the battle against RISC, technology analyst Peck says both Motorola and Intel may find they have bought less time than they think.

“Both (the 68040 and the 486) are based on a technology that is more than 10 years old, ” he says. “They’re serving the needs of software more than hardware.” How popular RISC becomes “will prove the variable in whether these chips represent a breakthrough in microprocessor technology or the end of the line.”

Chip wars

Intel and Motorola have competed chip for chip to power personal computers.
1972: Intel introduces the 8-bit 8008, a 3,500-transistor microprocessor that becomes the first PC chip.
1978: Intel 8086 debuts. It is adopted for use in personal computer clones.
1979: Intel offers the 16-bit 8088 with 29,000 transistors. Motorola inaugurates 68000 line, which just happens to have 68,000 transistors.
1981: IBM picks 8088 for its PC line. Apple chooses 68000.
1982: Intel unveils the 80286, a 130,000-transistor chip that later becomes the heart of the IBM PC AT.
1983: Motorola introduces the 68010, which is adopted by Hewlett-Packard, Sun Microsystems and Apollo Computer for technical work stations.
1984: Motorola is first to market with a full 32-bit microprocessor, the 68020. Chip has 195,000 transistors.
1985: Intel announces 32-bit 80386. IBM uses the chip for its PS/2 line. (box) 1987: Motorola responds with 68030.
April 1989: 1 million transistor mark broken. Intel announces 80486. Motorola unexpectedly releases advance details of 68040.
Source: Electronic Buyers News, PC Computing, Motorola

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Hmmm

Idk if this idea is going to work, but seeing as I bought this machine for data archive work this might do…

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Cool, an original A500 nicely upgraded. Do you also still have an Amiga 2000, or was that on loan, or awaiting repair?

What’s the plan with all the floppies? Convert to ADF and then transfer to PC or do they contain files that will be copied off to the HDD and transferred later on? The best decision I made back in the late 90’s was to convert all my disks to ADF and make images of my IDE hard-drive. I’m still able to use them today.

I guess you can also use an adapter to fit a CF card and write to that? It amazes me the amount of new kit being made (in small batches) for the original Amiga.

Nope them be my machines.

The original owner of my A2000 was a priest. They’ve since moved to AZ, but I agreed to try to get his data off. I’ve only been able to get to it more recently because of this A500. The hard drive, 010 upgrade, and spare floppy drive from the A2000, this A500 CAME OUT OF THE BOX AS THE EXACT MACHINE I NEEDED.

Oh and the KS 2.1 chip.

Basically I have to take a bunch of Textcraft files and either print and ship, or email.

If I had a dot matrix printer this’d been done 2 years ago lol.

Basically I needed AOS 2 to have dos disk compatibility, and a place to barf all the files. So I can take his files and put them somewhere, format some disks, and then move it over to my dos machine to print or put to a usb.

At least thats the plan.

Well if you could help me understand how sidecar works I’d appreciate it a lot.

In the 2000, not in the 500. I wish I had a 600 tbh.

I mean David Pleasent never stopped. Go watch the retro hour pod cast you’ll love it.

Floppy days too.

Also

Theres only one box of stuff I have to pull data off of. The large disk box belonged to the previous A500 owner, and the other boxes are mine.

I have a gotek, I just like floppies more.

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Sidecar was the PC hardware expansion for running MS-DOS? I never had one of those. Back when PC’s had parallel ports using a cable like this was the simplist way to get files copied off the Amiga in bulk https://amigakit.amiga.store/product_info.php?products_id=247. Being able to plug an Amiga ide HDD directly into a PC and UAE also made things easy.

I am sure CF adapters must exist for the A500? The Gotek would also be useful here if you image up the disks to ADF on a USB drive and the access them on a PC under UAE? Can you print to a PDF printer via UAE? I need to check…

No it was the expansion bus on the cheap machines (500, 1200, not the 600 tho that got pcmcia)

The 1200 was PCMCIA on the left hand side, same as the 600. It’s trapdoor was the main expansion slot. I thought the A500 left hand expansion was a Zorro type port?

Its the zorro bus, sure, its still called the sidecar bus tho.

Ok, I don’t remember hearing it called that. What info were you looking for on it? I remember a friend’s dad having GVP 030 accelerator and HDD plugged in and also seeing CD-ROM drives for it as well. I was gutted when I got my A600 an learned that none of those would work with it…

Kinda everything?

You probably want to see if the Amiga-Hacks yahoo group is still active. I’ve seen it mentioned on forums (in the distant past) as a place where the experts on hardware hacking Amiga’s gather.

Pinouts are also available: https://old.pinouts.ru/Slots/ZorroII_pinout.shtml#

I am sure I have seen pics of A500’s with adapters in the zorro slot with A1200 accelerators and CF cards plugged in, but can’t find anything right now.

Good luck with your project :slight_smile:

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The previous owner technically put an accelerator in already xD theres an adspeed 68010 overclockable chip in thele. Goes to 10mhz.

A computer is a computer.

Burroughs Large Systems
B5000 Stack Architecture Machine


https://www.smecc.org/The%20Architecture%20%20of%20the%20Burroughs%20B-5000.htm

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This is from a computer store in Okinawa called Hard Off. And no I’m not making that name up. That’s a little less than 8 dollars for what I assume to be broken macs.

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