Ryzen 5950X 64GB Memory Config on Taichi [again]

tl;dr
Which 64GB memory configuration is best for 5950x on x570 Taichi?

4x16 or 2x32?

Specifically comparing below memory configurations:
F4-3600C16Q-64GTZR
vs
BL2K32G36C16U4BL


System Info:
5950X - I haven’t really seen what IF can do, but assume it can do 1800 just fine.
x570 Taichi - word on street is this isn’t great of memory OCing.
Current RAM is F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC


Goals:
64GB, 3600-ticks, 1800-IF, C16-T1 timings.

LED [yes I know this is silly & comes at a cost premium (~30$ or ~20%), but last PC I built was before ARGB existed; I want to enjoy the fad for now]


Background:

I do gaming and rendering for YT videos; handbrake for transcoding; a bit of mining since my computer runs a number of server programs that need on all the time might as well make use of the 24/7 up-time.

I upgraded to the 5950x from 3900 where I learned/did most of my initial Ryzen tuning. I’m consistently running out of 32G ram now so I want to give it 64. I seriously doubt I need ECC & this is my main PC for gaming so I want to have fast ram anyways.

I started looking around for RAM and found a minefield of questions and confusion. Is the 5000 series IMC moar strongar than 3000 series? Is 2x DR the same as 4x SR? Tighter timings = maor FPS. IF 1:1 unless you’re over 166 {BZ reference}… On and on.

I’m now more confused than ever, but I think I’m close to understanding??? The conflicting opinions on Reddit/LTT/GN/L1T makes me question who to believe and where to post…so here goes nothing (or something, even the hologram simulation we live in is something)!

Need halp from the experts plz :slight_smile:


I have reference links & .xlsx files but since I’m new here I can’t attach them :frowning:
[this is fine, I wouldn’t want new accounts spamming the forum either]
Edit: haha, okay so after I post and level up I can edit my post with those details. So all is good.

Similar forum posts:
https:// Ryzen 5000 memory layout - 2x8GB vs 4x8GB vs 2x16GB - Single Rank vs Dual rank? - #10 by thevillageidiot
https:// Best Settings for my Ryzen 9-3950X on Taichi x570 - #2 by mxc0bbn

References:
https:// www.crucial.com/support/articles-faq-memory/what-is-a-memory-rank
https:// www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_ryzen_ram_scaling_effect_in_games,6.html
https:// forums.evga.com/tm.aspx?m=3207278&mpage=1
https:// docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qo0VGd4waXGfI3jXt5jF9ORxeLpXgEWvpnYKaXjWtgQ/edit#gid=0
https:// www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/j88cyk/5950x_ram_compatibility/
https:// www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/jw4b0a/want_the_best_ram_that_can_go_64gb_for_5950x/
https:// www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/jq5u1a/amd_ryzen_5000_series_four_vs_two_sticks_of_ram/gbka4ne/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=more_replies
https:// www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/jq5u1a/amd_ryzen_5000_series_four_vs_two_sticks_of_ram/gbk9pm8/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=more_replies
https:// youtu.be/iHJ16hD4ysk
https:// youtu.be/nugwAOvijHQ
https:// youtu.be/-UkGu6A-6sQ?t=1200
https:// youtu.be/AGux0pANft0

1 Like

4x16 will have better timings.

I use 3600C14Q-64GTZN w/ my 5950x on Dark Hero

G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14Q-64GTZN - Newegg.com

About $120 higher than when I bought it, but it’s B-Die and has 14-15-15-35 T1

edit:

G Skill has different modules that are aesthetic variations on this, but these would be my go to recommendation if you’re looking for the “best” Zen 3 RAM kit with 64 Gb

edit:

With your specific comparison I would go with the 4x16 and tighten timings further yourself. Losing a bit of speed won’t matter too much

2 Likes

Copy, thanks!

I searched for hours on all that RAM, crazy I didn’t see that version :confused:

Two follow-up questions that I forgot to post in OP.

  1. How do I tell if a memory module is B-Die? [most MFG don’t seem to state it on datasheet]

  2. In your (or someone else’s) opinion: Is the higher voltage & timings worth it?

Or put a different way, of course there’s a best; but which of the below RAM models yields highest value for money?

3600 18-22-22-42 1.35 CMW64GX4M4D3600C18 $440.00
3600 16-19-19-39 1.35 F4-3600C16Q-64GTZNC $490.00
3600 16-16-16-36 1.35 F4-3600C16Q-64GTZR $565.00
3600 14-15-15-35 1.45 F4-3600C14Q-64GTZN $650.00

I’m leaning towards $565 for 3 reasons.

  1. Taichi isn’t great at handling RAM OC/timings.
  2. $100 less than $650
  3. No juicing voltage

Forgot to mention; I doubt I have a need for 128G anytime in future. If I do I guess I’ll move this RAM to the 5800X server I’m building.

1 Like

No one really exposes the die oem in their datasheet. There’s a website for tracking this though; it’s a community effort.

B-Die Finder (benzhaomin.github.io)

Voltage don’t matter as long as the RAM can take it and you have some air flow. Most people will manually OC to those voltages; I prefer buying validated kits so I don’t have to think about it or run stability tests.

Good RAM upgrades can net you 10-20% performance increase depending on the use case and application.

80% of the time you’re looking at like a 3% increase.

Timings can be incredibly important for things like audio and stuff, though.

It just really depends, but if you’re just gaming; I would say that if you’re looking for “value”, I wouldn’t really look beyond 3600 cl18, which gets you a 10ns delay

Personally, I don’t see a point in saving the money once you’re in a certain class of spending lol but I never buy “value”

The actual difference between the trident kits is small, realistically.

As for, caring about the board:

You don’t need to worry about the mobo when looking at ram oc; different boards will net you better performance (due to traces), but it won’t effect the ability to OC them at all (thats all on the chip)

edit:

If you’re really worried about compatibility and stability, just check the QVL list from the ram and motherboard maker and you’re good

1 Like

Gotcha thanks!

No, I agree generally with ‘buy once cry once’. And at $500 for RAM starts to scale out of what of what does it matter… I just don’t want to spend 15% for 3% gains and useless RAM timings cuz it won’t OC properly. I don’t exactly have an unlimited budget.

Seems my understanding is flawed due to misunderstanding prior gained knowledge.

F4-3600C16Q-64GTZR is on QVL (I forgot) which is probably why I was leaning towards it. QVL isn’t very good for 4 sticks & 64GB… which is why I’m leery of picking and choosing.

Gaming, Rendering, Saying I have the fastest computer in its class around… :stuck_out_tongue: haha.

You don’t need to worry about the mobo when looking at ram oc; different boards will net you better performance (due to traces), but it won’t effect the ability to OC them at all (thats all on the chip)

I don’t quite understand this statement? Isn’t performance and OC the same?
My understanding of memory trace topology yields faster clocks (ticks) and/or tighter timings is due to the higher layer boards is all derived/learned from Buildzoid’s videos.

1 Like

If you’re really looking for an everything, top end:

I’ve been down that road, would recommend just getting the neo kit I originally linked. That way you just don’t have to think about it. No fuss, no muss.

QVL just seems that they manually tested themselves; it’s a rare day though when you actually have compatibility issues nowadays.

Zen2/3 is much more forgiving of ram OC.

As for value:

Everything above 3600 cl18 is incredibly marginal, diminishing gains. S’why most don’t need to worry about it at all.

It’s very niche to have stuff care that much. And even when you can say 10-20% gains, we’re talking like 1-10 FPS in say a game lol

A for the quote:

Buildzoid definitely knows more than me, but as far as I know:

Topology will allow better stability at higher OC thanks to shorter communication to the I/O die, but the vast majority of motherboards have reached the point that the limiting factor will be the I/O die itself.

Outside of OC contests, a better topology will just generally mean that you might notice that the same ram, at the same profile, benchmarks better.

edit:

basically, us normal people don’t need to worry about topology at all lol

edit2:

OC == overclocking the ram modules

stability == stability of the overall system and parts in communication

performance == performance of the overall system and parts in communication

better OC =/= better performance

edit3:

OC can also refer to OCing the IF, but assume you don’t want to go there

1 Like

Okay okay, thanks for beating me a bit :blush: :smile:

Part of my trepidation with not going QVL or fast RAM comes from my experience trying to get 3900X run @ 3600 with decent timings (1:1 IF).

I didn’t realize the RAM I had wasn’t on Taichi’s QVL and had 3 days of learning Ryzen & trying to get the dang thing to run/be stable at OC IF.

I eventually gave up. and just loaded XMP and if I trained the IMC enough it worked and was stable on all benches.

It was all a huge headache when I just wanted the dang machine to work; but It was a good learning experience.

So forgive me for questioning zen2/3’s forgiving nature :wink:

You can see that all here:
https://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/796578-3900x-RAM-amp-memory-controller-OC/page4


Technically 1800 is an IF OC…but even the worst Ryzen can achieve 1733 IF.

If I can go to 1900 I’d love to; but idk if that’s possible (haven’t tried it extensively on my 5950X; supposedly has a better IMC than Zen2…but we shall see.

Right now just need 64 Gigs of ram at XMP
I’ll try OCing later (both RAM & IF)

Yeah lol that’s why I don’t bother manually OCing ram and stick to QVLs myself

It’s also why I skipped zen till zen2/3, didn’t want to deal with finicky platform

G. Skill are pretty good at covering boards, even if the mobo maker hasn’t added the kit to their own QVL list

You had some terrible luck there; it’s been pretty rare to see people posting RAM xmp issues since zen2 came out. Increased compatibility has been a major selling point.

haha you’re more patient than I if you want to start messing with IF and stuff; large reason I got the ''Neo" kit over the Ripjaw V despite both having the Dark Hero on the QVL is simply that G Skill market it as their “AMD” ram.

I don’t want to touch RAM OCing with a nine foot pole; too much headache.

Same reason I bought best large kit I could get:

Didn’t want to think about it. Ram should just work and get out of the way as a possible concern for anything

I have heard IMC has been improved and I know that my boards QVL has been updated routinely, but haven’t really been following that since getting my parts.

The Taichi is indeed not a great memory overclocker.
So i would say just buy a nice kit of 3600mhz CL16´s.
Something like G.skill Tridend Z or Crucial Balistix with micron-e die.

I run the x570 Taichi and had a 3700x, 3800xt, 5600x and now the 5800x on it with the same RAM … 2 x 16GB HyperX RGB 3200 16-18-18-18-34. All chips ran my memory at 3600 16-20-20-20-36 1.368v. Granted, it’s only 2 sticks.

With the 5600x and 5800x I can do 4000 CAS 19, but I get audio crackling with IF 1:1 … I did run 3800 CAS18 1.41v for a bit, but I actually get better performance (synthetic benchmarks) running 3600 CAS16 …and at lower voltages = a smidge cooler.

i cant see any warnings saying, limited to 1 stick per channel if you use an oc profile beyond that of native mmu support.

it looks like there are limitations on how many sticks of ram you can use once you go over 3200. everything faster is classed as an oc profile. so may be limited to 1 stick per channel meaning a max of 2 sticks if you want to run at 3600.
problem is there is no direct refrence to this in the manual. but when board manufacturers put (3600OC) (3400OC) 3200 … support speeds. i it generally means a limitation is enforced on the faster bracketed speeds.

so you may want to email support and ask specifically if the board is limited to 1 dim per channel if your using oc profile speeds above 3200

Aww great, another thread of confusion.

Emailing support - I bet they just say “consult QVL and leave us alone.”


Found a neo version of the kit I most likely will purchase.
Is it true there isn’t a difference between chips for neo vs non-neo?

G.Skill|3600|16-16-16-36|1.35|F4-3600C16Q-64GTZN| $560.00
G.Skill|3600|16-16-16-36|1.35|F4-3600C16Q-64GTZR| $550.00

As far as anyone knows, the difference is marketing BS.

I know, for instance, that all the 3600cl14 64GB use B-Die last I checked and all have my board on the ram QVL

AsRock’s response:

You can install memory higher than 3200 , but you need to apply the following steps

OC RAM

Turn on your PC and when the BIOS screen appears, press F2 or the Delete key

Go to BIOS settings> OC Tweaker> XMP> profile

Dram Frequency (auto) changes to 3600

Dram setting> Shutdown (disabled) enabled.

Then go to BIOS / Advance / AMD CBS / CPU Common Options to set [Global C-state Control] to [Disable], please enable it to try.

Save and exit (F10)

When you restart your PC, press F2 or the Del key and check the BIOS settings and confirm that the speed is 3600


Seems straight forward enough


Ordered F4-3600C16Q-64GTZR for $550
Might go C14 at 1.45v we’ll see.

TY all, will update with success

2 Likes

RAM came in.
Can’t get XMP to work with 1:1 FCLK/MCLK @ anything higher than 1533/3066 :frowning:
Pushing to 1.45v I can sometimes get 3200 to work. I knew it’d be a stretch.
I don’t have time to fool with it for now.
Maybe I have to go 32GB sticks…

Use the Ram Calculator for four sticks. You’ll need the 1.45V but the main thing is to change the ProcODT value from the XMP default.
Try 40 ohms. Also the other termination values from the calculator will help.

Surprisingly that worked…

I haven’t had good experience with DRAM calculator in the past as it was worse than manual tuning.
After spending 2+hrs trying to manually get the RAM/FLCK to match up not being able to get past 3000/1500…

I tried DRAM-Calc1.7.3 and it worked first try! Thanks!

1 Like

You should also try getting the Fast settings to work. A lot more work but the benefit in speed with memory access is worth it.

I have 3600 Fast working with Geardown enabled at 1T.

if you find you have stability issues go to bios set all the ram timings to default. except the cas latency.
set that to 16
set the speed to 3600 and volts to 1.35
save and boot now wait till the bios learns the ram.
your pc could reboot a couple of times and on the 3rd/4th boot to windows.
open timing checker and write down the primary values the system has set for itself.
enter bios and enter them manually. save the profile. load the profile, reboot.

xmp says 16-16-16-36 but you see one has already been bumped to 17 so its showing as 16-17-16-34

as for going faster.
cas 14 is likely a reach, typically you can get a single point of cas latency bump. 16 to 15 in your case. if so you will have to set gear down mode to disabled.

simple test to see if you can boot at 14… change the cas latency and let the system learn as before.
if it boots you will want to stress test the memory with something like superpi 1m and 32m tests
(its quick and dirty but can show errors immediately)
as the system will lock if the ram timings are to tight. (hit the reset button)
or superpi will tell you theres and error in the checksum.

other than that have fun. coz im actually surprised they haven’t limited ram speeds to 1 dim per channel. so want to see yer numbers :smiley:

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