Right 2 Repair Corner

Right to Repair Lounge

TLDR you can read this post but this is a megathread dedicated to the following:

This thread is exactly what we lack here on L1techs, a right to repair megathread. Lets start off with what is right to repair? The right to repair refers to proposed government legislation that would allow consumers the ability to repair and modify their own consumer products electronic, automotive devices or farm vehicles such as tractors, where otherwise the manufacturer of such products requires the consumer to use only their offered services by restricting access to tools and components, or software barriers put in place to hinder independent repair or modification. These obstacles often lead to higher consumer costs or drive consumers to replace devices instead of repairing them. While the global community is concerned over the continuously growing size of the waste stream (especially electronic components), the primary debate over the right to repair has been centered on the United States and within the European Union.

What is the post for?

This post is for the following:

  • News stories regarding political legislation related to R2R
  • Schematics, drawings, pertinent technical data packages on parts (nothing illegal)
  • Instructional resources
  • 3D printing relevent to R2R articles
  • Training materials on repairing devices
  • Anything that helps people repair stuff
  • Personal reviews, attestments
  • Attitudes: Are you for it? Are you against it and why?
  • Low barrier cost of entry software like low cost CAD.
  • Discussing and organizing your political involvement/participation to form strong R2R Rights (Laws)
  • Discussing and making public all Anti Consumer practices you have experienced and from whom
  • Hardware AND Software/firmware right 2 repair related resources

What this post is not for:

  • Conspiracy Theories
  • Speculation or anecdotal information difficult to prove or disprove.
  • Fringe theories that slander huge name companies because monkey see monkey do
  • Bottom line keep the way out there stuff far away.

Why is this important?

First and foremost this has huge environmental saving impacts. Its not just consumers who benefit here. Reducing waste is one of the most important things we can do to protect the environment. Single-use plastics and landfill waste are far from the only contributors to waste. Electronics are hard to recycle or repair, so much of them end up in landfills. This means a lot of reusable components or materials can’t be reused. Electronic waste, also known as e-waste, is made up of electrical or electronic items, such as appliances, computers, smartphones, televisions, cameras, toasters, and more. If you can plug it into an electrical outlet or it has circuit boards then it’s e-waste. Right to repair seeks to cut down on e-waste by allowing people to repair their devices, which extends their lifespan and reduces how often we need to replace electronics. Contrary to popular belief Right to repair did not start in the EU it started in massachussets Motor Vehicle Owners' Right to Repair Act - Wikipedia in 2012. It began with cars which is understandable.

Not everyones approach is the same: (good graphic showing the EU is not united in their approach)

What is the EU doing to push right to repair?

The EU is taking the make better recycling reuse approach which I think is a completely fair way to start tackling the issue. However it does fall fairly short of the true goals and is an inferior solution. That said the current proposed legislation by the EU I absolutely 100% support. Please pass the DSA and DMA. Ignore US companies, government and lobby groups. Strike first and strike hard.

When you well meaning good folks across the pond pass or push this. It will inevitably help the everyday American do the same. TOO long have big manufacturing and tech companies done the wrong time. Its time to participate in our systems and FORCE them to do the right thing with the most severe penalties if they cant. If that bankrupts a company I support that. Companies with bad business practices should never be allowed to continue profiting.

What is the US doing to push right to repair?

As you can see legislation is occuring in many states:

But is that the whole story of course its not. The passing through the legislature depends on a lot of circumstances such as the party in power. Majority power in the state. The states with the most likelihood to pass legislation will always be states with bipartisan support. Get out there and slap some sense into the bickering children if you can

Also in a rather based move Biden has pushed some help for consumers making decisions.

Grey states indicate states whos legislation has not yet reached the first stage and is just in the talking stages. Thats why the Orange map is misleading. You will find more information here. Professionalism/The Right to Repair - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

The bottom line is this is good for all of us. This is good for sustainable production. That should be our goal not just r2r or reducing e-waste. One of the biggest problems of our modern century is the advent of just in time logistics. Lean Six Sigma Practices have been all the rage and the pandemic smacked that down with its viral honkey chonkey donkey bahonkey and showed people why this is trully going to be the downfall of what we do if we continue on this path. I myself am getting six sigma Black Belt certified. Its not all bad but some of it in the current way it is implemented is unsustainable. Work to improve the existing system do not seek to destroy it. That is rarely ever useful. History teaches us that 10 quadrillion times over again.

Who is pushing against it? and DO NOT let them win!

Ill let you read these articles for yourselves:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-20/microsoft-and-apple-wage-war-on-gadget-right-to-repair-laws
Sales stats for apple:

None of these companies are going to suffer from this legislation they are just no longer going to be allowed to exploit you. Almost all of their arguments are trash and if you think this is limited to the tech world. That would be an incorrect assumption:

John deere is notorious for hurting farmers in their pocket books and they are justifiably being litigated against.

Resources:

A notice about repair manuals

If its not legal to share then please keep that on the DL and other channels. I do not want this forum thread getting in trouble legally. I want to encourage you all to treat this thread as a means to share thoughts, information, repair info, experiences, hacks, etc. Everything related to right to repair is welcome. Try not to make it a news centric post. This post should contain useful technical experimentation and exploration as well

If you have reverse engineered something to make it more sustainable I would love to know what you did it on and how you did it to the extent it can be discussed.

Have fun, Repair, Reuse, Recycle and most of all if your not dirty you arent rich :wink:

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A Phone example of right to repair done right

This is a great example because the phone is glued or uses single use adhesives but it shows that something like that can be r2r friendly. Dont assume because its not “unscrewable” or some other very generalized simplification eliminates a device from being repair friendly. All that really defines a device being R2R friendly is that if you need special adhesives and tools that they are documented or easier to find rather than unsupportable and unprocurable.

There are A LOT of people who say the P6Pro is not r2r friendly and they are completely wrong about that because they made an assumption. This is a cautionary tale of assumptions make an a$$ out of u and me. Sometimes there are legitimate engineering reasons to do something a certain way. Do not assume you know they were being nefarious. Dont assume malice when stupidity can be applied just as equally. :slight_smile:

If anyone has a similar hardware case study please share! I would love to know. You are probably wondering why didnt I choose the pinephone for the example:

As amazing as the phone is for software freedom its not an example of a typical consumer device. Should we adopt the model of open hardware? Absolutely but if we, we being all humans, are gonna win this idealogical battle: Right to repair ideals must be embedded to the most popular consumer devices not just tinkerer devices.



Software example:

https://www.coreboot.org/

https://doc.coreboot.org/

The right to repair firmware example that proves you can protect intellectual property at the same time. There is no good reason why an end user should not be able to modify, upgrade or service his or her software and firmware!

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thanks for this informative post

Clap

Can’t wait for apple to sue us lulw

On topic tho, what all should be done on here? Also, could you plop a link to my laptop project in your OP? I’m going to be doing some more work on it soon, and its related to this.

Just asking for interest sake. But would forms of piracy be consider right to repair? As in ripping your own library and making a copy digital or burned of a disc you may have? Not selling or sharing but just in case your disc becomes not readable or shattered? Legally speaking probably not.

But I have bought and rebought discs that are bad a number of times. Whether they are mastering errors or i accidentally scratched them.

For blu rays it requires bypassing drm/encryption. My dad told me this used to be legal or not considered to be illegal when he last heard about it.

My personal thought on this is that companies such as john deer or apple dont like people repairing their own stuff because of losing money and intellectual rights. This seems very similar to copyright laws.

I remember a clause in software liscence that stipulated that you were allowed to make one copy for personal backup or archival purposes. I havent looked for a long time but “every” one had that clause. Has that disappeared?

Right to ownership is alongside right to repair but software and hardware are different planes, and therefore different legal definitions.

There are exceptions to this rule, such as software needed to make hardware funtion correctly, if at all, such as firmware (example being amiga kickstart, or a reflash file for the efi of a mac pro 1,1), but thats very finely riding the line depending on what you’re trying to get out of it. At that, these firmwares are often either publically available, for sale, or nonaccessible by the iser anyways, making them kibda mostly not part of d2r.

There are cases in which piracy of -hardware- thru a firmware can be put to r2r though, such as the hacked iphone home buttons that popped up in asia and europe that would work on lower ios firmwares if you had to replace a damaged button, but if you went past like 11.2 or something it’d brick the phone. However if you didn’t have a hacked button and tried to use any other button you wouldn’t have touch id.

But again, these are pinpoint cases and often are workarounds developed to get around a companies limitations.

Homebrew could be an argument as well I guess, and maybe thats what yall meant? But legally you’d need to have it in a repair aspect, not ownership. Again thats a different dispute.

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Sin problema. I’m invested in it taking off and becoming a good little corner.

Plop it into the thread. It doesn’t need to be in the OP this is a megathread

Well actually full stop. Its not really illegal to do this. If you own a physical copy and you make a digital copy and do not distribute it I don’t believe you have committed a crime?

I agree it should fall under some digital rights act. Digitizing a physical asset without distribution is not intent to traffic

Legal Grey area yeah … You run the risk of the DMCA laws which IMHO are unconstitutional

Could you find one with the rhetoric for us?

Currently recovering from double knee replacement surgery and wont be home for a week or 2. I’ll try to remember to look then.

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A quick search turned up an interesting page with a template for an End User License Agreement (EULA) that has options for the number of copies you can allow users of your closed source software to keep.

Good luck healing up, I was down all last spring with broken bones and it was a real struggle when people relied on me to do many things, and I couldn’t effectively rely on other people to do anything other than what they already do. I just had to lay there while people destroyed things and buried me in more work. Somehow I’m back to running around like the wild Florida Man that I am. Hang in there.

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The open markets anti trust act should be a good step in the right direction

Its right to repair adjacent

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John deere summarization videos

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Louis has two playlists here relevant to the thread.

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Hey guys check this out

Google is now making a DIY repair program

Side note: Google Fi drops prices for its unlimited plans and adds more data – TechCrunch

There carrier got cheaper if your into being on an MVNO

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I’ll believe it when I see it

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I think the problem is… him along with you and many others are only used to Apples repair program. Other companies arent always that bad.

I think because they are gonna see his response right now… he might influence it to be better

I think hes being a wee bit unfair about the timeline. Selling a plain jane battery has a lot of regulatory you have to go through even if you already did on your phone

Iirc samsung or some other company tied batteries with screens (such you must buy a screen and battery).

I ageee with him it’s just for the headlines. We’ve seen microsoft and major tech companies virtue signal r2r. Until they reach valve/framework levels of commitment, in my books it’s just for press.

look im sorry r2r doesnt mean… modular… It doesnt mean they cant design a battery glued to a screen. Thats ease of repair not right to repair

People like this in congress should be tried

My interpretation is the commitment to make parts and schematics available. Obviously, I have a bias toward valve and framework, and use them as examples of companies who are striving toward this ideal.

I have a general distrust towards the major tech companies as they have lobbied against r2r and needed shareholder pressure to consider it

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