I wouldn't call Wine a joke. It's impressive as hell, works most of the times and in many cases it's performance rivals that of native Windows. LibreOffice is no joke. MS Office incompatibility with open standards is a joke. Installing drivers? For average Joe, device drivers are either built-in, or one click away. I think calling the biggest collaborative project on the bloody Earth "a joke" requires a lot of arrogance.
Kodi is easy to get up and running. In the wrong hands, Windows is much harder to maintain and fix than Linux/OSX. I also think that Steam Machines as we know them today will fail terribly - the price is not right. What could Linux possibly offer average people, you ask? Easy-peasy. Security, Stablity and Ease of use (in case of proper user-friendly distro). It is much harder to really fuck up Linux install, than it is to fuck up Windows.
I'm troubled by your casual use of the word "most of the time" - you're not getting my point that as long as "stuff works most of the time", Linux will never be more than enthusiast level and office deployment software. Like. Never. You understand that right? People on a fundamental, basic level are unbelievably lazy and won't want to jump through the hoops that at some point you're invariably going to have to do to get something working; That's the problem with Linux...It's strength is also very much a weakness when it comes to selling it to the consumer.
How do I know that? A couple of years ago, I offered people computers with Ubuntu installed, I actually charged less because of the licence and offered a helpline if they get stuck, and people still went for the machine with Windows 7 installed, because they knew that everything would work right out of the box.
You mean the office compatibility that saves and opens ODF files you mean? Or the unlimited cloud storage to ensure that people are backing their crap up without thinking about it, and making it accessible any time, anywhere - including Linux and OSX machines, along with online editing tools to create, edit and delete documents without the need for core software? Evil Microsoft. They're certainly doing nothing for the consumer/prosumer base.
And I would assert that suggesting the biggest collaborative project on the Earth today (which I would argue isn't entirely true) as user friendly enough to tell people that it's good for every day use when the majority of people on the net aren't nearly as computer literate as you or I could only be described as deluded at best. You certainly lack comprehension (or just plain didn't read) my point about Linux being great in most cases, except being home consumer friendly.
OK. Give me a minute to make myself so I'm sitting comfortably. On what basis could you possibly argue that? Hell. Kodi relies heavily on meta tagging - most people have no clue what that or exif data even is, or that it exists.
Could you please do us justice and drop an argument that you could only argue as being consistently true since XP had just been released; if you were anywhere near being objective, you'd admit that Microsoft Firewall/Essentials is consistently excellent, has a low footprint, and works in conjunction patching flaws fairly damned quickly. Face it my friend; Microsoft has improved because of other Operating systems, and despite the blind criticising the things they just don't see.
I think what a lot of people who commented on his video as well as are posting here don't get is that if Linux is to become mainstream, as in ubiquitous like Windows, you need to just be able to install a file and for it to work. Have any of you worked in a help desk environment or on the sales floor of a tech company where you had to help fix peoples electronics? The vast majority of people have no desire to learn, or even to know why it broke. They just want it fixed and until Linux gets to that point, it will always be a niche product in the desktop OS market.
I don't think that this will be true for much longer. Linux distros have great repositories that take away the necessity to "install files" and all other OSs are making the move to this as well. Google Play, Apple App Store, Windows thingy - all of them are almost the same thing as Linux repos. From my experience, having users blindly installing files is a nightmare - if we don't make them use repos, they will eventualy install malware
You've got some interesting points. The thing is, that even in Windows, things do not work all the time. Older hardware not being supported and setting up some network security settings make me cringe almost every day. I am a volunteer IT guy at one student housing and we've got this connection secured with TTLS and MSCHaPv2 with CA certificate. Setting this up in Linux or OSX is easy-peasy. You just create new connection, type in all you need, select cert and there you go. In Windows, I need to activate Wired Security in services, install some third party crap that doesn't work with some (about 10%) network cards, import cert, set up all they need and then they need to reboot, because their network card freezes after about 4 hours of being connected.
Here you've got a point. I didn't realize it, since I haven't used it since 2010. But the same thing can be said about Google Docs.
I don't really see Microsoft Essentials as essential. In most cases, computer security's biggest threat is the user itself downloading and running obscure crap to get "those cute smiley faces into their browsers".
I agree. Microsoft has improved a lot. They copy features from Linux and OSX, and there is nothing wrong about that. But even in this, you can see value of Linux - it makes even Windows better :)
But that's just one example of where Microsoft actually learned from Linux: You can do pretty much anything advanced through powershell if you so insist, but the administrative tools themselves have gotten a lot better since Server 2000 and Windows NT4 (for example). The beauty of it is, that in yet another move of emulating the better parts of Linux, Microsoft have followed suit in another help resource in the form of Technet.
I agree, but the problem I have with Google Docs, is the company that has built the apps - but honestly doing a side by side comparison, I still don't see any overall advantage of using google docs.
The name is a marketing tool - but the point is that acknowledging that more people using Windows over any other OS in the world, Microsoft are at least doing their level best to even the playing field and giving the....Let's call them the less technically minded - among us a free antivirus and firewall system integrated into the system to at least stem the tide of their idiocy. I say stem the tide, because god knows...Most of the jobs I get are refreshes from people who've installed the weirdest shit. lol
Look - the crux of the issue is the same of any OS; The first thing I was taught in comp sci, is that the operating system is only ever as secure as you make it - the difference is that Microsoft haven't rested on their laurels, the hardcore Linux user still won't admit that any OS has vulnerabilities, and you're seeing a growing amount of malware for OSX...Because let's face it; anyone who can be convinced to buy a really thin laptop with crappy battery life and one fucking port under the premise that it's the best thing from this company yet is clearly mentally deficient in some manner.
The sad thing is, I love UNIX. OSX could be so much more. Hell. OSX more than Linux has the potential to take Microsoft out of the game.
Until then, Microsoft is at least learning. Windows 10 finally has virtual desktops for example; advanced users can install any number of drivers (or ununstall the default apps) through command line if you so wish - Satya Nadella is a fucking genius; I've met the guy - but he also loves the shit out linux. I guarantee that life is going to get easier for everyone with him at the helm.
Have you even bothered reading the discussion at hand, or do you just not like discussions? In which case....Why the fuck are you here. Do you only care to hear about the nice things about linux? are your sensibilities that delicate?
Congratulations for completely missing the point being made. What I'm saying is completely on ball with the video in saying "look, I love Linux for certain things" - but honestly, steamOS and Distros themselves doing jack shit for an easy desktop experiences, while Microsoft seem to finally have cracked the idea of a ubiquitous eco system.
That needs to be learned from, admired and emulated - Lessons should be gleaned from your competitors; not ignored.
Stop defending SteamOS. It's DoA thanks to ridiculous pricing. Thanks to valve not controlling the pricing strategies of their partners, console users are going to be able to legitimately argue that it costs so much more to have one of those things over an xbox one, and not even consider self building.
WINE containers on games is not a fix, and you're certainly not going to convince people like myself to drop a third of their libraries just to move from Windows to a Distro - what could the benefit possibly be? I have a steam machine in my living room...It runs steam in big picture mode, with the windows 7 desktop disabled through command line, and starting up automatically - hell, if I had the backing I'd sell the damned boxes myself.
What makes you think I don't? You know next to nothing about me, and appear to have completely missed the latter point of the discussion myself and a couple of others were having.
The guy in that video is one of those old crazy world of tanks/war thunder players. That should be /thread right there. They are angry and belligerent about anything non-instant gratification.
Half the issues with Microsoft/Windows is they continue to try and support code that is dated back to WindowsNT. The reason I like Linux is because I'm in charge. Sure, it may take a bit of learning, which I'll agree, most end users couldn't care less about and is the reason society is getting dumber by the day. Everyone wants an "easy button". There's something to be said for critical thinking and expanding your horizons even if it's not the sunbathed horizon of Fiji.
So, me being able to use one of my remote support tools through WINE without a single issue is a joke? If so, then the joke is on you. Using WINE to play games isn't what I'm talking about as the title of my topic clearly states my thoughts on the matter as an IT professional... not someone attempting to play their entire catalogue of games on Linux. I think we can all agree the Linux gaming ecosystem is very small right now but if you do your homework on Vulkan, SteamOS, and Source2 well.... we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
Libre Office is not a joke. It's not as full features as MS Office sure, but that doesn't make it a completely useless software suite. Half of the offices I support use it and they request support for it less than MS Office users do. Also, as you've already pointed out, MS Office 365 has provided a great deal of flexibility to users of any OS. For that I applaud MS. Users of Windows can choose MS Office, Libre Office, Google Docs, or whatever the hell they want rendering this point of yours moot.
You've obviously not used Linux in a while. I completely installed/configured/customized my Ubuntu install through the GUI and get prompted to install updates daily through the GUI just like Windows. Again, that point is moot.
I'll give it to you, Linux has some catching up to do in the multimedia department if what you're referring to is multimedia editing and production. For simple consumption of multimedia, there's literally no difference in Windows and Linux. In any case, you state OSX doesn't do it well either which is simply untrue. There are millions of professional multimedia editors/producers that work on Macs so I'm not sure where you got your information on that unless I'm misunderstanding the statement... which is totally possible. ;)
Lastly, to answer you question and sum up, I never once said Linux was the best thing for the end user. Ironically I see you asking people to read your points yet you've failed to read mine so... yeah. Post your stuff in the proper place, be polite, or get out.
That's probably my fault for putting it in the title. I was merely using his video as a frame of reference for my opinions about using Linux as a daily driver from the perspective of an IT professional.
How the fuck is any of what I've said derailing the thread? Are you completely dense? Do you know how to discuss, bro?
Preaching to the converted. Every time news of an internal alpha build pops up in conversation with fellow microsoft partners, the first thing I ask for is dropping the legacy code and forcing business to move forward - it looks like Nadella is finally making in roads to doing just that - the way that it'll improve Windows isn't something I could even begin to describe. And I agree; society is getting dumber, as people are more interested in convenience over hard work - which is precisely why Windows as it is right now, will always win out of Linux when it comes to the Consumer market.
Please understand in a way that herbert mcdipshit up there seemed to fail to understand - I'm not saying that Linux itself is a useless tool; I'm saying that in terms of making it an every day driver for a multitude of people is an uphill struggle that the Linux foundation has to face if it expects to win the hearts and minds of people who just want to play a game on their TV with minimal fuss. There's a huge difference between using WINE as a productivity tool, and relying on it to patch the frankly massive issue steam has of convincing people that you should drop in many cases a masive library of games...For Linux, and a container that very much has a reputation of possible instability.
To a degree I agree - but I think the overall lack of features and functionality that Libreoffice provides makes it whooly unattractive.
Fuck Unity
Can we not pretend that you don't still have to remember "apt-get" every now and then when things don't quite work all that well? Sure - Ubuntu's done some work on developing a GUI, but it's far from perfect.
Media Creation, I would argue that OSX is falling behind compared to Windows development these days; on Linux it's non existent. On linux however, in order to have any kind of playback involve, there are major hoops to be jumped through; especially if you happen to be unfortunate enough to be using a creative card - and that needs fixing badly. I'm not blaming Linux foundation alone for that, but the problem is there.
I don't think I've ever failed to be polite except in one case where a poster was being perfectly obtuse about understanding anypoint of view. There's no need to get your jimmies rustled. I'm genuinely not the enemy; I want Linux to be better - I'm simply pointing out flaws as I see them.
It's hard to read tone in text so forgive me if I read your posts as argumentative or flaming others simply because they have a different perspective of Linux than you. We seem to be having a civil conversation about it right now and that's all I'm really looking for. My feathers aren't rustled... I assure you. :)
For the record, I tried Unity for about 2 hours and moved to GNOME as I find it more enjoyable and desirable to work with as a daily driver so I don't have much of a basis to say whether Unity sucks or not. All I know is I'm thoroughly enjoying my 14.04 GNOME DE right now.
Consumption of music and video hasn't been a problem for me but I can sure see where it would be extremely agitating to be unable to get even something that simple working properly.
I think we're on the same page and thank you for responding in a courteous manner.
Thanks you. The big thing people seem to misunderstand about me, is that U argue the point to be disruptive - quite the contrary. I don't believe anything can be improved without engaging in open dialogue and acknowledging the areas in which we can improve. I've used SuSe for years now, but am often forced to acknowledge its shortfalls. I'm glad I do. It's how decent feedback happens.
I genuinely believe that if Linux is to succeed, the whole community needs to embrace Gnome as a standard for home user development.
And thank you for not being outrageously fanboyish and confrontational. lol