Boy are you going to be happy when robot taxis start making the rounds… Imagine having 10x the Uber availability for 1/100th of the price, also the car fleet will shrink to 1/5th of the size. Atleast if the industry forecasts are anywhere near accurate. 
Still a few years off for that reality though, tech is pretty much there, lawmakers aren’t.
I hope it doesen’t sound like I’m attacking you, but I don’t get what’s the point of this post.
It’s just all we know about physics, maths and modeling applied to climate. Tomayto, tomahto so why not believeing in it?
Yes, but what we should REALLY be after are illegal industries in China that have such an impact on greenhouse gasses that when they had to close them for a while due to covid scientists observed a significant reduction of the onzone hole we have in the atmosphere.
And we should go after all the power plants that produce electicity burning coal and oil.
On top of this reducing our footprint reducing the temperature in our houses/apartments to 20 or 21°C during winter and having them a bit higher during summer 25/26°C is also important.
In all of these changes cars account for a much smaller carbon footprint than we realize.
Yes, they’re all trying to shaft us with cars that can be entirely controlled remotely like RC cars. I agree on this.
You don’t fasten your seatbelt because you know you’re gonna get into an accident that day. You do it because that’s the safe thing to do. And having insurance is like that, but they’re ripping you off in the process no doubt.
If you’re not passionate about cars that’s understandable. Everyone spends their money however they want.
You could be drying your hair and get shocked to death. You could be walking on the street, tumble on a sharp edge of the sidewalk and slice your head open to death. Something might get stuck in your throat and kill you. And so on and so forth. There are risks everywhere so it’s not like you can say cars are more dangerous than other things we have to deal with on a daily basis.
Yes, it’s not efficient but public transport can be very inefficient time wise and not everyone can, for various reasons, move with those, a bike or a motorbike. Maybe more could choose to do so, but I don’t fault people for using their cars.
Maybe if more people stopped using rust buckets with V8s in them to go grocery shopping things would be better.
Compare an electric car to something like a bike, and you get a good baseline of where I am coming from. Teslas are waaay more environmentally detrimental.
The “climate scientists” I’ve noticed on the internet are not scientists.
Greenhouse gas emissions from energy production accounts for like around half of, if not slightly more than, global greenhouse emissions. Pointing the finger on any one company or country doesn’t solve the problem. At this point you just get the scenario you get in the movies where we’re all pointing guns to each others heads and everyone’s afraid to make a single move for fear of getting offed by someone else.
Ideally this would be how insurance would work. But you know when you get denied a short-term disability claim because your disabling injury happened at work - you become pretty cynical about having any insurance; plus I don’t even like having a car and I established this already. OFC I would hate having to pay insurance for it. Or maybe you can listen to Louis Rossmann’s experience with insurance; or tales from around the internet about insurance companies screwing over claimants unnecessarily. So in an ideal world your argument would totally hold up under pressure; but in a world where insurance companies are making themselves irrelevant, your argument crumbles like a jenga tower.
This argument is shills more for cars than the car manufacturers do - and that is sad. Your argument is pretty tone deaf imo. Yes I can get hurt doing a myriad of other activities in my daily life. However the probability of me getting majorly hurt in a car accident is greater than that of me getting hurt tripping on the sidewalk - and this goes for pretty much everything else in life (Heck, even planes are safer than cars). On a sidewalk I am more likely to get up and walk away with some road rash. In a car accident you have seat belt injuries, bruises, cuts, concussions, wiplash, etc. And car accidents are more terrifying. I’ve been in only two car accidents in my life - both times I was a passenger. Neither of them were bad enough to prompt the airbag to deploy. Still I remember how I felt in the moments leading up to and after the accidents - and that feeling terrifies me.
Lol wut!? Replace company/country with mode of transport and you did exactly that. Kind of hard to take seriously when stuff like this crops up.
I think you are a little too blinded by your own argument/hatred of cars. That last part about how anything could kill you is more about not worrying about a specific thing rather than “shilling for big car” which just sound really dumb. If you worry about why cars are dangerous to drive, why are you similarly not worrying about how dangerous is it to do literally anything else.
Yeah I was willing to give this a chance but this is just silly. You clearly have no intention of having rational debate and just want to screech about cars while ignoring everything else. Like you say:
Expand your scope and be reasonable.
Have you looked at the Hyundai Kona? I drove one and found it to be excellent. Yes, it’s not cheap, but if I were going to drop 40k on an SUV, it’s my #2 choice after the 2006 4runner.
Frankly, for the person who doesn’t need to travel far and doesn’t enjoy cars, electric is a stupid easy choice in 2021, but for anyone who enjoys cars or likes to go more than 300mi in a day, you’re going to continue down the engine route.
At the end of the day, each man is the artisan of his own destiny. Forge yours.
This is an interesting if somewhat impassioned thread. Cool.
TL;DR: Cars not go. Humans no change.
Holy hell I didn’t mean to rant.
I live about a thirty minute drive from my office if traffic is light. From my office, it’s about an hour and fourty minutes in similar conditions to get to either of my datacentres in London.
I regularly drive to see clients all over the UK.
Right now, I drive a diesel. I bought it because I wanted something bigger for my family, and because I’m doing quite a lot of mileage for work.
I think I could easily switch to an electric vehicle, and I would like to do so.
My urge to compensate is drawing me to the F-150 Lightning.
I think driving in the UK is a bit easier for EVs, because it’s quite simply smaller than the US. It’s easier to find charging stations, and most places have them now at least on the major routes, like between major cities.
You can get subsidies for getting a charging station fitted to your house, and there are schemes to allow you to charge people (like your neighbors) to use them. Indirectly.
The UK at least is undoubtedly gearing up for a future of electric vehicles.
Cars are big and heavy and can kill people. Most car drivers are relatively unskilled, and uninterested in developing their road skills. They just want to get from A - B as quickly as possible. Even skilled and conscientious drivers make mistakes.
I am not a super skilled driver or anything. I changed lane on the M25 a few weeks ago to a blaring horn. Didn’t see the little white van that was just in the wrong place for mirrors, and I didn’t quite turn my head far enough when I checked. No harm done, but that could have been tragic.
I understand your concern about cars.
But what’s the alternative?
I don’t mean suggesting public transport, I mean a real alternative. People have to be free to go where they want. To get to the parks and zoos, to go shopping in Nearby Big City. To go to work with a big pile of equipment or tools without some kind of special courier.
Not everyone lives in a city with a big connected public transport system. It’s not necessarily economical for a state or municipal government to build one.
Western society is entirely built on that freedom, and taking that away would be enough to cause some pretty serious social distress.
On the flip side, people totally use cars where it’s not necessary. I have a pretty nasty knee / back injury left over from a martial arts and motorcycle incident when i was younger. I should really walk my kid to school, it’s a probably 20-25 minute round trip. That hurts. A lot.
People drive when they could walk, or bike, or whatever. Again, that’s easier in the UK than it is in the states. I was married to a Texan for many years, and I spent time there. You can’t just walk to a corner shop or supermarket like I can here, and I understand that. That has to be factored in.
Are we going to rebuild whole cities to make them more bike friendly? Probably not.
Are we going to tear down the road infrastructure to make some new public transport? Maglev or whatever? No. Hell no.
Cars are something that are here to stay. We absolutely need to make the battery chemistries less energy intensive and hard on the planet. We need to make cars safer. I don’t think we can take them away.
Maybe it will be something like uber, maybe it will be like the Voi electric scooters being trialled in the UK but with cars or electric motorcycles.
Cars will stay though.
Nobody is going to bulldoze the M25, no matter how brilliant that would be.
So you mean you don’t enjoy that sweet acceleration of a Tesla Model 3? 
Actually the range is also a pretty big misconception. Electric vehicles can easily travel 800 miles (1287 km) in a single day, given there are charge stations available along the route.
Assumptions:
Range: 250 miles at full battery
Drive/Charge pattern: Start full, drive to 20%, charge to 80%
Charge time 20-80: 30 min
Average speed: 65 mph
Driver schedule:
| Timeslot | Miles | Comment |
|---|---|---|
| 06:00-09:00 | 200 | Start driving at full capacity after a light breakfast |
| 09:00-09:30 | 200 | First charge, a second breakfast and bathroom break |
| 09:30-12:00 | 350 | Onwards, into the unknown countryside! |
| 12:00-12:30 | 350 | Lunch break |
| 12:30-15:00 | 500 | Third stretch |
| 15:00-15:30 | 500 | Afternoon tea |
| 15:30-18:00 | 650 | Fourth stretch |
| 18:00-18:30 | 650 | Dinnertime |
| 18:30-21:00 | 800 | Final stretch |
| 21:00-06:00 | 800 | Motel stay, charge full during night |
A gas car would be able to get a bit farther but at the cost of break time, though to be fair afternoon tea and second breakfast could be skipped (At wild protests from Merry and Pippin in the back! 
). If the average speed is upped to 75 mph, you could comfortably go 1000 miles in a day with two more break stops, the other being only 10 minutes. And you will save a lot of money on gas that will instead go to fuel yourself, not bad.
Of course, not everything is sunshine and roses, either. But for the occasional long trip electric is fine. If you are a courier transporting packages across the US on a daily basis, though, ICE is still your bread and butter.
Both points apply equally, if not more so, to children. If you don’t mind me asking, do you plan on having any of those? If so, how do you imagine life turning out if you have a couple of kids and no way to transport the whole family?
Pointing the finger doesen’t relieve from each and everyone of us to do our part. But also is much much easier for a company or a country to regulate their emission instead of asking billions of people to make significant changes in their lives all at once. A factory can reduce their carbon footprint in 5 years, but if someone is barely surviving on minimum wage they can’t afford an electric car, for example. What I’m trying to say is that the change from the masses, which makes 50% of the carbon footprint, requires 1000x more time than the time it’s required to reduce the other 50% of the carbon emission. So why not push for the fastest 50% to be shed?
Exactly, on the internet. I don’t think this point needs any further discussion.
Insurance companies sucks and are trying to fuck over everyone, I think I agreed on you on this.
I’m no psychologist, but I see that you’ve been very scarred by your experiences and I don’t fault you for being so afraid of getting into another car accident. I feel like your fears are speaking louder than reason here, and it’s still not your fault.
Have you ever been in a bike accident, for example? Once I almost knocked over a guy that just appeared from between cars to cross the road (had to slam on the brakes to avoid him and not swerve into cars so I almost did a front flip), another time a car just cut me off and when I was offroading once I feel into thorn bushes and almost broke a leg on a rock. We all react differently to accidents, but it’s not because of my inexperience or due to poor awareness from people that I say that bycicles are the most dangerous thing on earth. It’s all up to luck and some ability to react to the situation.
I do, but I also like the feel of a turbo rolling on at 2500rpm and the engagement I get from changing gears.
I’ve driven a Tesla roadster (the original) and a built turbo miata on the Angeles crest highway. The Tesla beats the pants off the miata up until 120mph-ish where the Tesla hits redline, but I much prefer the miata for the driving feel. That said, the roadster is quite a good car, especially for the first attempt.
Additionally, the model 3 is absolutely retarded as a driver’s car. Like was mentioned, no instrument panel or display in front of the driver is just about the worst decision you could make. I will never buy one for that reason alone.
I require 90+mph cruising speed, and less than 30 minutes of refill time. I know it’s not a typical requirement, but this is why I don’t see electrics as viable for me yet.
My E350 covers this perfectly. I get 26mpg at 90mph when I go to Arizona.
I much prefer a large travel mug of tea in the cupholder and as short a travel time as possible.
I feel like a well designed infrastructure for electrics would make couriers the ideal candidate for mass electric rollout. Low speed, frequent start stop, regular stops at the depot to replenish supplies.
I am not sure if I want children. I haven’t decided, but even if I don’t have children of my own I have considered adoption for some very personal reasons.
Currently I am said “person who is barely surviving on minimum wage”, and the same can be said about gasoline cars. They’re just as bad for low-income citizens. That’s what I alluded to when I complained about paying for gas and vehicle maintenance. Those two things are almost all but eliminated by an EV. But ofc right now the price of EV’s are astronomical, though so are pretty much all new cars. The Tesla Model 3 is the same price as many new cars of the same caliber. One of the worst things too about Tesla, is that they are trying to be a fashion statement with most of their lineup and make them sports cars. Even most people don’t have the money for the Ferrari of EVs.
Sorry, I forgot to reply to this quote. Yes, I have been in a bike accident before. And the last time I used my bike I noticed that I am now terrified of going down hills on my bicycle. I still love my bike though and I still want to get an eBike. Though I think I want some elbow and knee pads (it was my elbow that I broke in the accident).
I do agree on the changing gears aspect. I would like a manual transmission, but I struggle balancing that with the desire for an emissionless EV. I think it would be cool if some of these “alternative fuels” for diesel engines were to be viable. Plus I could buy an older diesel and not worry about MemeCar phoning home to daddy Musk. (And Fords, GMs, Toyotas, and all the rest are doing the same now).
Yes and can I or should I commute 50 miles on a bike?
You are glossing over so much of the united states and Canada in your baseline scenario
The system is also built on commuting from the suburbs etc primary because cities suck. There’s a reason cars improved daily life
at the end of the day, I think the only guys doing EVs justice are the folks at EV West.
I’ve considered doing their Porsche 930 conversion, but I want to buy a house first.
Ok, you’re completely misinterpreting this. These are all my personal feelings about what I want/need. Currently I drive about 25 miles to work. I am not telling you what you need to do. I don’t care what you do. I am struggling finding a balance between getting a ICE which has a ton of good things about it, except that it runs on combustion; and getting an EV whose only good thing is that it doesn’t run on combustion. All EVs suck from a consumer perspective because they follow the new-car trend of being a smart car.
I think you’ll like the Hyundai Kona. I found that it has only very rudimentary “Smart features” and even then, pretty much just EV charging management and carplay stuff…
I think we were agreeing on this point and didn’t know it. The price out the door for an EV is much higher than paying for gas like once a week.
I’m driving an hybrid currently and it gets stupid MPG, you can find one decently new for cheap and they require less of everything than a gas car needs. If you ever think about getting another car, for now, I think hybrid is the way to go.
I guess the dopamine of the exercise makes it worth riding anyway, even if you’ve had an accident.
I hope your elbow recovered completly! Joints injuries are very tricky to deal with.
In my head I wanted to make my own ebike as a weekend project, but it’s not easy to get parts for it where I live, especially realible 18650 cells. If you can get your hands on parts maybe you can make your own too since you already have a bike. And for that you’re gonna need some protection beyond pads because you can keep 35mph no problem with one of those.