OK it may sound a bit confusing…basically I had an absolutely DOA AM4 motherboard and a Ryzen CPU of unknown condition. I sent the motherboard and the CPU back to the dealer and the dealer claimed both the motherboard and CPU were defective.
Now to be clear, I am not seeking legal advice here (although I am happy to get inputs), but I am seeking technical advice. You see, in case I need to challenge their claim, I might need the CPU tested by someone. However, is there even a way to reliably determine whether the CPU they send back to me is the CPU I sent back to them?
I know there is SN on the lid (and I have the SN on the box still), but given the people I am dealing with, I would not throw counterfeiting out of the window. And because the CPU is claimed to be defective, my expectation is that I am going to receive a dead CPU. So I can’t just fire it up and check CPU-Z.
How about they swap the lid with another known defective CPU?
I agree I’m 99% just being a conspiracy nut, but I want to be careful with it. They have been holding my CPU hostage for months and would not disclose their test report to me, if there’s anyway they can get away, I won’t let them.
In a video on his YouTube channel, der8auer (“The Farmer”) shows the steps involved in delidding the Ryzen 7 1700 which involve using razor blades, a heating element to get the IHS heated to a temperature high enough to melt the indium (~170°C on the block with the indium melting around 157°C), and a whole lot of courage. After using the razor blades to cut the glue around the edges, he heated up the IHS enough to start melting the solder and after a cringe-worthy cracking sound he was able to lift the package away from the IHS with the die and on-package components intact!
Now reverse that process to get the lid back on without it being noticeable.
Again, I agree it’s hard to do. However I don’t care a single bit whether it’s an easy task to counterfeit or whatever, I only care if there is a reliable way to identify a CPU?
Thanks for your reply but sorry you’re totally missing my point.
It should come back with A lid on it, most likely the original lid. But I guess that’s when your “hard to tamper without leaving noticeable evidence” comes in?
So if the silicon is dead, then there’s no way to read its SN out?
… wait. What are we even talking about? You have the original SN. If the new lid doesn’t have the SN, it’s not your CPU. So they can’t just swap lids, and again, the effort to reproduce the engraving correctly in a “not noticeably different” way is probably beyond their means.
Yeah. That’s what it means for it to be dead. Motherboard won’t POST with a dead CPU.
If they changed the Lid of the CPU and the Silicon its dead, theres no realiable way to know the S/N, but you can easily see if a CPU Has been delided, and i dont think that deliding a Ryzen CPU to change the chips its worth the time/effort, Just check the CPU S/N on the lid and check if you can see any visible marks of delidding, try to move the IHS, its not easy to resolder an IHS and be as the factory one.
Also try the CPU on a different Motherboard, its really hard to bust a chip, i had like 2 Intels that were “Dead” and i just cleaned the back and tried on different motherboards and they are still working rocksolid 4-5 years down the road.
They can put my lid on a known dead CPU (so I get a dead CPU that has my lid) and put that dead CPU’s lid on my CPU (so they get a usable CPU) that’s what I’m saying.
Bummer. Thought you could connect some wires to the pins and get some readings. Why can’t they do this it’s 2017
Well, it’s hard to imagine what kind of life were I living had I got 2 AM4 motherboards back in March. There was a de-soldered component on that dead motherboard so of course it didn’t post. I’m even wondering if that could have killed the CPU (although, unlikely).
So basically, without the CPU and a working AM4 motherboard in hand, I just have to take their words.
And what would they possibly gain from that? You send it back again because it’s a defect and repeat until you get a working CPU.
Not sure in what circles you are that this type of stuff even comes to mind.
You “probably” “technically” “maybe” could, but it’s the same as swapping the lids here, it’s just too damn expensive to do that it doesn’t even make sense doing in the first place.
Well I did hide some details about what went on and how did I get here so that only my main concern gets expressed and people can focus on answering that, but since you’ve asked, let me tell you: they claim that I misused/damaged the CPU and they would not replace/refund it.
I don’t know how warranty works in wherever you are, but here (germany) if you have a defect in the first 6 months after purchase the dealer has to replace the product unless he has 100% proof that the defect was not there at the time of purchase (or in other words you destroyed it).
Might wanna check the warranty card. Also usually if the dealer refuses service you can go to the manufacturer and ask them for warranty claims, AMD probably has better means to determine if the chip was DOA.
We have 2 years mandatory warranty here, and we can get a refund/replacement if there’s a “major fault”. And of course, provided you didn’t destroy it. The thing is though, now they are just claiming that I misused it without giving evidence, they say they sent it to a supplier for assessment but they did not forward the report (if there was one) even after me asking for it.
Which is why I am concerned about the integrity of the CPU. Who knows what have they done to it? They’ve probably delided it already.
“misuse/damage” is all about obvious physical damage: bent pins, chipped pcb, burns. TAKE PHOTOS of your cpu before you return it. if you didn’t this time, i’m very sorry to hear it… keep it in mind for next time.
I don’t understand where you got the “they delidded it” idea from. This is a completely off-the-wall suspicion. Even if they are being dishonest, there’s zero need/benefit/profit in such an elaborate deception. it does seem odd that they wouldn’t share the report with you.
who the hell did you buy it from, anyway? going straight to AMD with the return/complaint is probably what you should be doing next.
just for future reference, all this approach ever accomplishes is confusing the people who are trying to help you, and getting answers that are wrong and/or not relevant to your actual problem.
I used to build and sell computers for a living and deal with RMAs on behalf of my customers (years ago).
While it did give me access to a greater number of CPUs to play silicon lottery whilst only having to pay for my own, it never really made any sense to mess with hardware in such a way. I used to warn customers that sometimes the RMAs don’t pan out, but usually I’d paint the picture of a customer being extremely naive and the manufacturer/large dealer would honor their warranty. (except in one case where there was a laser printer in the kitchen of an Italian restaurant where cooking was happening close by and printer was clearly full of olive oil vapors).
I’ve also had a case once where a bad motherboard would kill any CPU that goes into it, it killed 2 CPUs in it before I noticed a faint burnt smell. I sent both the motherboard with “kills CPUs” description and the CPUs with “never worked - DOA” description and manufacturers (via dealers) replaced both CPUs and the motherboard.
A CPU costs AMD a fraction of the selling price, and it totally isn’t in anyone’s interest to mess with dealers and customers. These things happen and as long as there’s nothing really weird - you didn’t drill your CPU or haven’t cracked the PCB by throwing it around, or placed it at the angle grinder, I can’t imagine why they’d assume any malace. If it’s your 4th RMA and you’re killing them with a battery to play silicon lottery, they might take some notice, because reverse supply chain stuff is a chore and boring and it’s just wasteful.
Internally, they probably classify issues for some statistics around what to focus on during development and QC in the future, chances are they’ve probably already seen your failure mode.
I still don’t see how that would profit the dealer. Because… you know, warranty is a thing.