Can anyone help me with the best options and support for a X570S Motherboard in regards to support IOMMU?
Also, what do you prefer in terms of:
Linux distro (currently using Centos 7, migrating to RockyOS with KDE)
Best VM software for Windows 2012,10/8.1/7 guests, for gaming, encoding, specific windows development/apps, etc…in a Linux host. I currently use the reverse, meaning, I’m running Windows 8.1 as the host with multiple VMWare Workstations guests of Centos/Kubuntu/Rocky/Windows, but not with a dedicated GPU, so no 3D acceleration (tends to crash the VM) and only play games on the host with a 6850K/X99UD3P/1080GTX
I currently have the MSI ACE in the box but haven’t tried it yet since scrapping websites for details on it, it looks like they force you to use PCI1 for the host GPU and with a new BIOS update, they reduced the groupings.
So then I bought the Gigabyte X570S Master (now I have two new Motherboards in the box and before I open one and return the other) because I found on youtube from Pavol Elsig " GPU passthrough: Choosing the right motherboard Ryzen CPUs" and found on the GB documentation that you can still choose which PCI slot is the default/host.
My build is the following:
MSI X570S ACE or Gigabyte X570S Master
5950X
4 HDDs
2 2.5 SSD
64 GB RAM C16 3600 Corsair
3070 TUF
960 EVGA (Dual Slot)
and if it can fit with both GPU’s, a 4 port ethernet pci card in the bottom slot.
Just adding a note, I thought it was a error, but it turns out Gigabyte closed their public forum, I was hoping there would be some info there with setting up IOMMU and if there was, it’s all gone…ugh.
Always Gigabyte. They have a feature to select the initial boot GPU slot that no other vendor has.
Personally I would upgrade that 960 to a 1650 Super because the 960 is going to get royally screwed as time goes on because of lack of open source support.
Hi @FurryJackman Thanks so much, yep, on that youtube video Pavil shows that option which on GB’s site, the BIOS manual still has that feature available. Gotcha, waiting for prices to further drop then I’ll upgrade the older GPU to the 1650, but if I can recycle it for the time being, that would be great.
My only gripe so far is that GB has 6 sata ports and MSI has 8.
Thanks for your help, between you and @FurryJackman, I’m going with the GB Master x570S then. Just a quick question…do you have any issues with cold booting that I read about related to GB boards or was that related to people using the q-flash and that messed things up where they had cold boot issues?
Also, what vm software do you use? I currently run vmware workstation, is that recommended or something better to use on a linux host…I have no experience using it on a linux host, just on Windows 7/8.1 on the host, with linux as a guest.
I am also running KVM/QEMU on a Xubuntu setup however I am tried of needing to update to a new OS. So I am planning on a future system rebuild to Manjaro Linux for the rolling updates.
The big key in my opinion is the motherboard supporting IOMMU. I am using an ASrock motherboard and GPU (AMD has let us down in that department). Gigabyte is tempting for a rebuild with their initial boot GPU slot however I have a bad taste in my mouth over the power supply fiasco and now they have shutdown their forums? This makes me wonder how the long term support will go.
On linux you’d want Libvirt, it gives you a gui (virt-manager) that can be used to manage VMs. (In the backend this uses Qemu/KVM to run the VM). Some people use Qemu directly but it can be a headache.
With the right case you could put a GPU on a riser, and give yourself a few more PCIe slots.
Also FYI the primary GPU stuff isn’t much of a concern. As long as the vfio-pci module binds early enough, it can prevent the target GPU from initialising, even if its marked as the primary GPU. (Sometimes you need kernel cmdline options to turn off efifb and/or simplefb).
I’m running IOMMU on an MSI X570S Tomahalk, and the GPU I passthrough is selected as the primary when booting. I have no option to change it but it works anyway. I paid almost half the price of the Aorus Master. (But damn the Master is a great board …)
Thanks for letting me know that about the cold boot issue not affecting you, I remember my first experience with GB on the AMD AM4 platform wasn’t good and went with MSI Carbon (always had GB boards prior on Intel with the exception of ABIT and DFI back in the Athlon days)
Great to know that too, I’ll research more into KVM/QEMU on youtube, possibly Chris Titus may have a video regarding setting that up.
I agree with you completely on that, not sure what’s going on with GB and that’s concerning, but if the master works well and I don’t need any further BIOS / AGESA updates (not sure how that works yet, i.e. if there’s a dependency between the BIOS/Kernel updates and AGESA) then I can kinda lock-in my config and do my stuff without further issues. Sort of like my Win 8.1 and 7 boxes, haven’t updated anything on them in years and they work flawlessly under heavy loads at time, only had 1 BSOD on 8.1 and that was due to enabling 3D acceleration in VMWare Workstation which causes that, in the last 5 years, otherwise, 24/7 uptime for months at time (unless a reboot for a install is required, etc…)
Forgot to add, yep, I remember seeing that recently on GN with GB’s PSUs catching fire and their poor handling of it. Reminds me of how bad Enermax handled their Liberty line PSU failures, never went back to them either, went to PC Power and Cooling and then Seasonic and EVGA.
Great info, thanks! I’ve never did a riser cable, but I will def. check it out if just for testing/playing with it if not a solution where I really need to use it. I did find this though on yourtube / Hardware Canuks, titled, “There’s a PROBLEM with Riser Cables” at 6:58, The GB Master Fails and the MSI ACE works on the riser cable (at least with the Lian Li riser cable)
I’m torn, MSI or GB…have 20 more days to decide which to open first and try…I really prefer the MSI for 8 sata ports, but prefer GB for the Intel Nic over realtek on the MSI, but that’s irrelevant since I’ll be added in a SIIG Legacy I350-T4 ethernet card. I think someone over at GB does work with virtualization and probably want that configurable in the BIOS vs MSI. IDK, at these prices, you’d expect someone buying it to want to push the MB to the max with this being one particular use case vs. just someone with more money than sense buying the most expensive MB because they can. MSI was asked about this feature being added (picking the initial gpu boot pcie slot and why did they reduce groupings on a newer bios update and they were brushed off from MSI which I didn’t like – not sure if I read that in reddit or toms or ltt)
The AGESA is the chipset firmware from AMD, think of it as the core that the BIOS is built around. When AMD wants to add new features/functions to their chipset they will release a new AGESA to the vendors, the vendors then update their BIOS around it and release it to consumers.
The important thing to know about IOMMU is that it’s a function of the AGESA, and is kind of an incidental feature for consumer motherboards. Vendors aren’t going to make changes to their BIOS to break it, but it’s not the main priority when adding features. So reducing IOMMU groups may occur because it adds stability, or allows some other feature to work better. Hence we end up in the situation where IOMMU compatibility is being crowd sourced.
(No idea if it’s worth mentioning, but X570 and X570S are identical. AMD released an AGESA that reduced power usage, giving motherboard vendors an excuse to remove the fan and release slightly updated boards under a new name).
From what I’ve read it’s only really PCIe 4.0 risers that have certain issues, so if you do have any issues just put your secondary slots in PCIe 3.0 mode (The video seems to mention that they’re only testing PCIe 4.0 mode). Also FYI you can get M.2 → PCIe risers if you need more cards. (Or if you’re crazy, M.2 to sata adapters).
That Aorus Master is recommended in so many places that I’d be siding with that board. I’d either plan to move to M.2 SSDs, reduce the amount of HDDs you need, or get a PCIe HBA (a SFF-8087 to SATA breakout cable gives you four sata ports from one cable on a HBA, really helps cable management).
Sorry about the long delay in replying, last week was incredibly busy. Thank you so much for all the information, I really appreciate it!
I started building the new build today with the Gigabyte Master (I installed the memory and the m2 ssd…will install everything else tmrw.)
@FurryJackman Thanks on the 960 tip, and after unpackaging the 3070 TUF, I decided the 960 wouldn’t work out due to the PCI layout and the sizes of these cards, so I begrudgingly (because it’s way overpriced at $250) ordered the PNY T600 because it’s a single slot card that fits with no issues and runs at 40W max power draw for the host / Linux.
Once it’s setup, I’m going to try out Rocky Linux with KDE and start setting up Libvirt/Qemu/KVM.
As long as the T600 is Turing, it should work with the NVIDIA open source kernel modules.
Unfortunately the T600 is based off of the 1650 non super so it lacks the latest NVENC. If you care about NVENC enough, you can get a 1650 Super, but if not, the T600 should still work well.
@FurryJackman Great to hear that, it is…came in oem white box, badly packaged and missing a thermal pad and paste like exactly like this review on youtube: watch?v=n_oq9P1TnNg – but hey, they included mini-dp to dp cables!
Thanks on that point too, correct, but I really needed the SIIG 4 port ethernet card in there too, and I measured the 1650 based on what’s available, not enough clearance between pci 2 and 3…with that said, the 3070 will be pci 1, T600 pci2 and SIIG pci 3. I just hope this board last, not liking what’s been going on with Gigabyte at all with AMD and their PSU execuses – I’ve had no problems with them at all in the past with Intel, but did with my 1700X and the Aorus x370 board, returned all of that for a X99 UD3P and 6850K. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure MSI and ASUS have their problems too, but I just called MSI about IOMMU before I complete the GB build and the person their said it wont run Linux, it only works for Windows as it’s a gaming motherboard. I hung up. Wow. The MSI x570S Meg Ace was my backup in case this build failed with a boot loop or DOA.
Can anyone recommend an air cooler for the X570S Master, the BeQuiet Dark Rock Slim Bracket is hitting the VRM cooling heatsink, can’t screw it down without possible damage.
Strange the site says that it’s compatible. I’ve used that cooler on a different X570 board, and I found that as you tighten the screw the end of the bracket pivots up. So maybe give it a try?
Also can you confirm that you have the correct AM4 mount. Your brackets only have one screw position, but the (newer) brackets have two screw positions.
Thanks, believe it or not, I ordered 5 of these fans, due to damage to a few that need to be returned (amazon shipped it in the product box for two of them, smashed, another in a plastic sleeve (stepped on)) and the other two were exchanges. Anyways, I opened up the other boxs and guess what, found what you mentioned, a bracket for AMD (the only bracket) [EDIT: With 2 screw holes] with spacers too…looks like Amazon has a mix of old and new stock. However, still doesn’t work, I don’t have a small level, but here’s a picture if you contrast it against the heatsink in the background, it’s not level.
Last night, I ordered the Noctua NH-U12S with the “free” $9.00 kit [Noctua NM-AM4] which has the short 90 degree bracket which I’ll try. If this doesn’t work, I’m returning everything and will wait for a price dip again for the X570 Extreme which doesn’t have this heat sink as the X570 original Master is sold out, luckily, even though that’s EATX, it will fit in my case. Do you know if the Extreme is also OK for IOMMU groupings? Looking at the BIOS manual for it, it does support the setting which PCI slot is for the host. I just don’t know which rev I’ll get, as they have 4 revs for that board.
Hi @SonWon Thanks, but at this point, I’ll try Noctua or return everything. I have to return the BeQuiets because I’m near the 30 days, wont have time to figure this out with them. I saw a photo on Amazon review for this board with someone using the larger Noctua U series fan, so I ordered the 12S, maybe that will work, if not, it’s all going back and I’ll wait for the X570 Extreme, if that MB goes OOS, then I’ll use the 5950X on my old MSI Gaming Carbon X470 board and see what I can do, as I’m passed the return frame for both the 5950X and the RTX 3070.
