I just want to share my experiences with trying to get Thunderbolt properly working on an AM5 setup.
My setup I tried:
Asrock B650M PG Riptide
Asrock Thunderbolt 4 AIC card (rev 1)
Standard thunderbolt 4 cable and also Corning Optical Thunderbolt
Apple Studio display
Some other stuff : RTX 4070 Ti, 7700 ryzen
To clarify - this is a niche of a niche setup, but that’s what this forum is about
So in order to install the card, you need to:
connect it to the bottom PCIe x4 slot
Connect USB and thunderbolt header
Now enable in the UEFI in Advanced - AMD PBS - Thunderbolt Support
And the first problem occurs. After enabling it, the motherboard cannot properly detect discrete GPU (4070 Ti in my case) on first try. I hear a successful POST beep and then followed by 5 beeps - It cannot detect video output even though I have HDMI plugged in. Connecting HDMI into iGPU results in being able to boot and in device manager I can verify that discrete GPU was not detected.
However when you soft reboot the machine (so for example after hearing the beeps, you just press the power reset button) it properly initialises….
So then I tried the Studio display and it works, I even tried using the Corning optical thunderbolt cable which was my main goal to move pc to another room and it also works. For a few minutes… Then I just get black screen. Even though I can for example still use mouse, peripherals connected to the usb hub on the Studio Display. And using secondary monitor I can see that windows still detects that monitor. But that can be only Studio Display problem.
So, ignoring the last paragraph, I would still not recommend Asrock AM5 motherboards if you plan on using them with their Thunderbolt card because it can’t even initialise properly. It must be wrong UEFI implementation. And the second thing I found out they don’t even publish thunderbolt NVM firmware updates for the Thunderbolt add in card…
I will try to RMA it and exchange it for an ASUS combo.
My X670E ProArt has thunderbolt built-in, which might be a cheaper solution than getting a lower end board and fitting aftermarket thunderbolt to it.
I know it doesn’t say thunderbolt anywhere on it, but it is there, I’ve used it. They probably just didn’t want to pay Intel extra for the license to officially call it thunderbolt, that’s not uncommon for AMD products.
It does have a controller but Asus doesn’t advertise Thunderbolt 4 support so I wouldn’t hold my breath and reddit users suggest that it doesn’t work. Our of curiosity what did you test it with and did you verify that it uses Thunderbolt and not USB (many devices offers a compatibility mode)?
Explicitly thunderbolt, only my old Samsung external SSD. It could have been running in USB-C mode I guess, but it was just as fast as it is on my MacBook, and I know it uses thunderbolt there.
I’ve also used it for monitors, they work just fine for doing 4k120Hz DP over a USB-C cable, but that’s in both the USB-C and TB specs nowadays so that’s hardly conclusive. If I plug in my laptop dock the HDMI and USB ports both work, which also suggests thunderbolt, though I know this dock does have a USB-C mode. It does officially support USB4, which is almost always backwards compatible with Thunderbolt 3 from what I’ve read. Might as well give it a try, if it doesn’t work you can just return it and get something cheaper with a thunderbolt card instead. I could also look for what mode something is running in if you tell me what to look for? I know lspci lists a thunderbolt controller but like you said it might not be in use.
Reddit users are idiots, I doubt most of them even know what a thunderbolt is, since you don’t need it to plug in LED strips and play counter strike. You should have zero respect for them or their opinions. One of them says “doesn’t work for me”, gets an upvote, and then two dozen stream in with the exact same comment to fish upvotes of their own. Then someone who actually owns the product comes in, says “What are you on about, this does work, just do xyz” and gets downvoted and hidden for going against the opinion the hive mind has already established. I speak from experience, it’s an awful platform and it can’t die soon enough.
It’s thunderbolt, my Thunderbolt dock I bought after getting the PC is currently being RMAed for ethernet problems but I called both the maker and ASUS and got a confirmation that the JHL8540 are fully enabled. With them on Intel’s website being listed as Thunderbolt 4 controllers.
Additionally the previous ProArt motherboard which was labeled as having Thunderbolt 4 used the same Intel JHL8540.
And the video didn’t start working once windows loaded? I’ve observed multiple HDMI detection failures on NVIDIA hardware and certain monitors. I’ve also experienced it with Displayport on my 1080 Ti when I bought my current 4K display, NVIDIA had to release a Displayport firmware update tool to fix this for Pascal owners. But in all instances, once Windows loaded and took over control of system devices my new monitor would begin working. That it wouldn’t for you implicates ASRock’s UEFI.
Given ASRock explicitly mentions the B650M PG Riptide as supported in their Thunderbolt 4 AIC documentation & board list, the B650M PG Riptide manual, and you followed all the procedures outlined in it means the onus is on them to fix it or refund you. I’m not sure buying another brand of AM5 board and a matching brand Thunderbolt card is going to be a guarantee of success, Thunderbolt in general seems to be very hit and miss. It sounds like you’re already aware, but just to state it the ASRock Thunderbolt AIC will not work in an ASUS board. I’ve read that ASUS uses a custom header/cable for their own TB4 AIC and boards anyway.
Like Susanna said if you’re going to buy an ASUS board, it’s probably best to just get one that has full thunderbolt baked in like the X670E-Creator ProArt. But all of the Thunderbolt 4 cards / boards are going to be using the same JHL8540 chip regardless.
The video card didn’t start working even in the Windows. Windows didn’t see the device in device manager. When I disable Thunderbolt support in UEFI AMD/PBS, it starts working. (Or if I hard reboot PC after I hear the beeps that no video output was detected, then it picks it up.)
I am aware that it’s all the same chip. In ASUS boards or in Gigabyte,… I just see that ASUS at least provides firmware updates to that card and judging by pictures of UEFI it has much more options. So I believe it is not that half baked as in Asrock.
Thanks for the tip! The X670E pro art looks nice, but it’s really like 180USD more (versus some combo like B650 TUF + ASUS ThunderboltEX card). I understand that it should be more polished on the ProArt model, so if this combo won’t do it, the I am gonna justify that premium.
That’s very good to know! Disappointing ASrock is letting another edge product languish… poor product support was why I gave up on ASUS and went ASRock for AM5 in the first place, but since ASUS is at least providing firmware updates for its TB4 cards they should be a much safer bet. Still sucks to go through so much hassle returning hardware though.
I have two DisplayPort monitors disy chained downstream from Thunderbolt 3 hub connected to Asus AM5 ProArt. Works fine. But I do not have a discrete GPU, just using an integrated one. There is a DisplayPort-in connector to accept discreet GPUs.
Obviously no HDMI. HDMI is bad story on USB/Thunderbolt. If you need HDMI you are probably better converting DisplayPort to HDMI just before it enters the monitor.
So just an update guys. For anyone trying to find a compatible AMD AM5 Thunderbolt solution. Even for a niche setup like Apple Studio Display and optical thunderbolt cable from Corning.
I swapped B650M PG Riptide from Asrock and their Asrock Thunderbolt 4 AIC for a ASUS B650 TUF Wifi and Asus Thunderbolt 4 EX.
I just unpacked it, installed my CPU, RAM, GPU (4070 Ti), I installed Asus Thunderbolt card, connected USB and Thunderbolt headers (even these cables leave much better impression in terms of shielding than the asrock ones.).
I booted it, updated UEFI/BIOS of the motherboard. And I just went to Advanced / AMD PBS / Enable Thunderbolt 4. I leaved other Thunderbolt settings as default (No Security, Full resources, wake up.).
Saved the bios settings and everything just worked… The card has even latest Thunderbolt NVM firmware (36).
No weird problems like GPU not detected or when the asrock detected it, the studio display worked like few minutes and then it blacked out.
None of these problems on the Asus combo.
I was skeptical after how they handled the overvoltages of Ryzen 7000 CPUs, so I went ASrock, but this is much better.
My previous home server is Asus H87 Haswell setup, that has been working nonstop for the last 9 years…
And the Preboot environment like UEFI also works! (including peripherals connected to the USB hub of the Thunderbolt monitor)
So I dont need to run to the attic or use my PiKVM for this setup if I want to change something or change boot options. Neat!
For both x670 and b650 chipsets it states that it does not support TB monitor, not sure if this existed when you first posted, as I saw it yesterday when I was thinking of getting the card for my livemixer b650 and decided to check the support list before doing anything
Ok, that makes sense. The studio display works on the ASrock for like 5-10 minutes, then it blacks out. I think its just they didnt bothered to test it with newer NVM firmware.
However, even if you want to use the Asrock thunderbolt card without Thunderbolt monitor, just with other TB peripherals, the board does not POST reliably when you have discrete GPU That is much bigger problem.
When I enabled TB support in Asrock UEFI, it then could not detect discrete GPU reliably on every boot… You need to boot the PC, wait for beeps of no video output detected and then pres reset button… That was without any TB monitor plugged in… Just with HDMI monitor plugged into the discrete GPU. So really beware of that. It could have been combo that I used RTX 40XX series. I saw that some of the older asrock bioses have “Better compatibility with RTX 40XX” in their changelog.
Well I have an intel and an amd motherboard, both from ASRock, with TB4 capabilities. I will get one, test on both and see if its worth it buying the second one. For the AMD I don’t care much about the monitor, is more about the extra connectivity but if you’re still getting problems just by having the AIC connected I will won’t just get 2 of them to start with. TY for the heads up
Wow, I have been on a journey researching a new build, and this thread has been the most useful of all that I have come across. Thank you!
This is such a fascinatingly confusing topic, but it does seem that ASUS has the best all around support for Thunderbolt on AM5. I too am wondering if part of the confusion is not wanting to pay for licensing to call the onboard boards “Thunderbolt”. It seems so strange that they would do it for one product (the add-on card), and not for motherboards with the same JHL8540 controllers.
What is also interesting, is that the ProArt X670E-CREATOR advertises the JHL8540; however, the ProArt B650-CREATOR does NOT (even though it has the same DisplayPort in-to-USB4 routing functionality). This inclines me to believe that the X670E is unnamed Thunderbolt (as others have demonstrated above), while the B650 is just DP Alt. Mode over USB4. Any thoughts on that from others in the thread?
I think the reason is that the JHL8540 is actually not on the B650 board, but it is on the TB card you connect to the header:
And whereas there is no ‘thunderbolt’ wording (rather USB4) on the x670 creator specs, the specs of the B650 list a ‘thunderbolt header’ rather than ‘USB4 header’.
There is probably no technical reason for the difference, just legal/licensing. For one thing, I assume the TB addon card also works on Intel boards, maybe that explains the difference?
Yeah both the X670E and the B650 have the thunderbolt header, capable of having the JHL8540 add-on card from ASUS connected to them, per the ASUS compatibility listing for the add-on card.
I am more looking at the fact that both ProArt boards have the DP-in-to-USB4 routing of the video signal, but the X670E specifically says it has the JHL8540 controller, while the B650 only mentions supporting video through the rear USB-C port. I know that “DP Alt. Mode over USB-C” and “Thunderbolt” are not the same, so it leads me to think that the X670E can do full Thunderbolt out of the gate with its integrated USB-C ports (which are really Thunderbolt ports due to the onboard JHL8540), while the B650 is only capable of “DP Alt. Mode over USB-C”. Sure you could purchase the ASUS add-on card to add 2 full Thunderbolt ports to the B650. But your Thunderbolt ports would then be the 2 new ones on the add-on card—note the onboard one. In that sense there’s really nothing special about the B650 with respect to Thunderbolt. The DP Alt. Mode over USB-C is great if that is what you are looking for. But if you’re looking for the to, say, support a monitor that requires Thunderbolt to work properly (such as the original v1 versions of the mac-specific LG UltraFine 4K and 5K monitors), only the X670E would work without the add-on card.
At least that’s how it seems to me. But it’s all very unclear.
The TB add on card I linked has two DP inputs for exactly this. Right there in the specs on the first page. So yes, the b650 board can do the DP passthrough from dGPU too, even on both ports (which the x670 can’t, one is hardwired to the iGPU)
That is much bigger problem.