Will Linux ever take the desktop market?

Operating Systems & Open Source Linux
41

This is a valid question! Adobe rules on Windows because it uses all the features Windows has to offer for a smooth experience, but it is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too old for linux. Darktable for linux for instance, uses OpenCL acceleration, Lightroom doesn't. GIMP and even fucking LibreOffice use OpenCL acceleration, Photoshop doesn't except for some plug-ins. Premiere uses CUDA/OpenCL acceleration, but it deteriorates the rendering quality, that would not be acceptible in Linux. CPU rendering is more efficient in linux, Premiere can's leverage that extra performance... same with flash, which is just a hazard to use.

Adobe just had a patch day... no patch for linux. Adove is now focusing on a better implementation of DRM to lock down their delivery software even further... linux is not concerned, they use the PDF standard, but without the DRM... Adobe can't win on linux, that's why they do everything they can to not even have to try. The fact is that community open source software has evolved to a point where the software industry can't afford to produce the same quality any more. They just don't have the money to spend on the same means of production. And they bloody well know it! That's why they keep trying to boycott linux in every way they can, especially by crap marketing and by blocking hardware platforms (drivers). They tried in the past with software platforms, they won't make it, and they bloody know that very well also.

Why is it so difficult to get open source software for the creative industry on linux? Very easy, because there are many blocking points: media formats, codecs, GPU drivers, etc... and they are all exploited by the industry: when open source media formats come out, hardware manufacturers take money from software companies to block them, or why do you think only Leica and Hasselblad use open source RAW standards? It's an industry based on closed standards and cuttroath marketing, and that whole industry clings on by the tip of their nails, with a gaping abyss beneath them. FFmpeg slipped up for proprietary music codecs, and a part of the industry crumbled into nothingness. As soon as there is the slightest slip-up, the entire industry will fall, and it will happen sooner or later. Nikon and Canon wanted to use linux in their products, and they had to document their camera RAW standards. A few months later, their own PC software imploded. Sony still hangs on to proprietary video standards, limiting what a user can do with the video files on closed platforms, but not on open source platforms. AMD wanted to leverage the HSA potential of linux... they're now prioritizing open source drivers, just like Intel. nVidia wants to play on the ARM-market... they're merging all of their Tegra-instructions in the open source linux kernel... and there will come a time where they won't be able to provide all the services they want to provide, like the intercompatibility between their Tegra devices and their PC-hardware, without open sourcing their crap, and if they don't, they die, and that can happen quickly, as AMD has demonstrated. Open source has become a weapon that closed source dependent manufacturers use against each other to compete each other to death. The power of open source is much greater than it is given credit for, and open source will prevail.

Autodesk was waaaaaay more intelligent about this whole evolution than Adobe. But hey, maybe Sony will want to buy Adobe for cheap, I think they might be interested in the long run.

 

42

Linux is fucking terrible for the normal user and that's because it's developed by only a group of programmers who have no actual knowledge of what the users want. They emulate other interfaces, add a lot of practical menus, make it safer to use BUT it can't even come close to what you can do on a windows OS. There's just no programs good enough on linux to make people interested in switching. Sure there are alternatives but they're worse compared to windows. And there's plenty of piracy going on with windows, linux being free is not an argument.

I don't use linux at all, and I don't want to, because of the horrible experiences I've had in the past, and because I hate mobiles (tablets, smartphones, that sort of thing). I live my digital life in the past (retro for life) and so I don't need freaking virus protection.

43

I think that there is a shift in that.

People that want to use a software console, are going to buy devices more than PC's. That concept has already been proven.

On the other hand, linux distros that provide "McDonalds"-like one-size-fits-all solutions, like Ubuntu+Unity for instance, are losing ground rapidly. That is because the PC users that are left, are less software console users, and want more customized systems. And that's where the linux concept comes into the picture. RedHat has been very adamant on making Gnome the new standard, they have taken a lot of flak for that. Debian is as usual still debating, so GabeN provided them with a new standard, which is SteamOS, which is a linux-based software console for the x86-platform, like there are so many linux-based software consoles already on the market for all kinds of platforms.

Now just what is a "Windows user"?

Everyone uses more linux than Windows, just not on that x86-PC, because linux does no marketing, they don't have to sell stuff, well, they do, in the enterprise market, and they've already taken over completely there. More enterprises would run linux, but they don't have the money to migrate, as they also don't have to money to update their Windows XP or Server 2003 versions. To roll out a linux environment in an enterprise, is not cheap, the people that do that have a pretty full schedule and cost more per hour than the many jobless Microsoft specialists out there. So Microsoft is rolling out more XP and Server 2003 updates, because they have no choice but to do that in the hope that those enterprises will buy upgrades, which they won't, as soon as they have the money, they will also migrate to linux. But in daily life, people use linux in just about every aspect of their lives, without even realizing that it is linux that they're using. They get up in the morning by the sound of their alarm clock, which is a docking station for their phone that is running linux, they turn up the thermostat, which is running linux, they check their e-mail, which is provided by linux servers, they use an Android phone that is running linux, they watch the morning news on their TV, which is running linux, they get into their car, which is running linux, they follow traffic which is managed by linux, they arrive at work and open the parking lot gate with their smartcard, which works because of linux, they go into their office with the smartcard and the door opens because of linux, they use the telephone at work, which runs linux, they use the copier and printer, which run linux, they use their work PC, which may run linux or Windows, but connects through a linux server, a linux router, a linux dedicated firewall, they go out at lunch, order something in the restaurant, the cash register runs linux, the deep fryers run linux, the food is kept cool with linux controlled hardware, the food is delivered with a linux controlled distribution system through means of transportation that run linux, they have a meeting on the other side of town, they again go through the linux controlled traffic, they park their car, and put coins into the linux controlled parking meter, they arrive at another company, and are registered in the linux system and observed by the linux controlled security system, they take the linux controlled elevator up to the meeting room, that has linux controlled lighting, a linux controlled beamer, a linux controlled video conferencing system, they are done with their meeting, then go through the linux controlled traffic in their linux controlled car, and go to a doctor's appointement, where they are registered into the linux controlled social security and health insurance system, then go in for an examination with a linux controlled medical diagnostics device, the doctor prescribes some medication, so they drive in their linux controlled cars through linux controlled traffic to the pharmacist, which enters the presciption in his linux-controlled system that operates the automated shelves to bring up the medication needed, after which the medication is paid for using the linux controlled cash register and the linux controlled debit card reader, which connects to the linux payment processing service over the linux controlled router and linux controlled internet, after which they go home through linux controlled traffic in their linux controlled car and open the garage door with their linux controlled domotics system and prepare some food out of the linux controlled refrigator, using the linux controller food processor and micro wave ovens, which operate thanks to the linux controlled power grid, after which they do the dishes using the linux controlled running water service or use the linux controlled dishwasher, and they go and sit behind their PC, which is running Windows, which they do for about an hour, maybe two, after which they switch on their linux controlled TV, after which they go to bed.... and they consider themselves a Windows user and don't believe linux is going to make it... yeah right!

44

I don't know if you're trolling or if you are serious, either way, your post has put a big, wide grin on my face. Thank you! EDIT: I'm grinning because of the sheer flamebaiting potential.

45

Dumb people can't use linux desktop -> Dumb people can use windows -> Most people are dumb -> Linux desktop won't take over until dumb people can use it

Lets also not forget that Microsoft has the resources to hit the reset button,create a new kernel and make a new efficent OS.I doubt they are making windows bloated on purpose.They are still milking the NT stuff they indtroduced in mid 90s.They are friggin Microsoft they can hire people to do modern efficent stuff if they wanted to.

Linux isn't that complex and anyone with an aptitude for computers can use it easily but your average person doesn't like change and doesn't have aptitude for technology.

Desktop is nearly dead for the average user anyway.Why should anyone care what os the miniority uses :)

46

Nearly everyone i know personally wouldn't know how to use Linux on the desktop. That doesn't make them any less intelligent than you or I. They simply have different interests, not everyone HAS to know about alternative OS's. They use what works for them.

47

as the old mantra goes....

If you can't - teach.

48

I wouldn't but many professionals have a dependency on adobe, there might be open source alternatives, and I agree that usually they have better coding standards, but they don't always accomplish the same thing, and usually professionals want their work done so they get paid, and if Adobe tools do the jobs faster because they are used to it, they will keep using it.

49

I do a lot of work in programs like Sibelius, Protools, Cubase and Nuendo. That is the only thing that is keeping me from switching. I use Ubuntu and Windows but I hate Microsoft so if it weren't for those programs I would definitely switch. 

50

Okay let's settle the elephant in the room here, on a windows PC can you emulate an OS that allows for perfect kernel pass through then fool the system into thinking your dual core is an 8 core... No the kernel won't allow this type of aceess, can you edit the system no, can you push old hardware to match windows yes... Oh and your virus proof let's see a 8 yr old kid with a LINUX $100 netbook crush your OS in seconds, windows is good for games that's it, dark table beats lightroom, gimp beats PS, libre beats ms office, clam av beats your Norton and mcafee, all of the Linux tools are free there... So is the os and so is support, you say you don't use Linux did you use Google today? If so then you use hadoop, which uses Linux, did you use Facebook? Uses Linux... Did you use an electronic? Linux... I don't mean to sound like an arse you could have had a super bad experience with linux, which may have coloured your vision of Linux but windows is just a basic os, its power is limited due to the creation of the system...

Try Linux again and see what your missing :) 

Also the GUI is easier than windows because its yours to customise don't hate on the software that has already taken over your life ;)

51

As soon as Linux get some more f***ing support I'll gladly switch over.

52

Support for what? Closed-source software from corrupt conservative corporations? Closed-source drivers for locked hardware that takes control out of the users' hand? Support for antiquated Microsoft software on a system that is obviously, and intentionally not Windows? GNU/Linux is not an alternative, it is a replacement. Separate yourself from corporate corruption, government spying, and adopt a platform that respects your sovereignty. Don't wait for support, replace your corporate handicap - rather, support OSS alternatives and help create a social change on a global scale for a healthy computing environment, not a crippled, antiquated, and 'crammed down your throat' environment that builds an inhumane dependence upon corporate bodies.

Break free, push for revolutionary change, and stop being a pawn of money-hungry supranationals.

53

Really, the only thing holding back linux from taking over desktops is a lack of incentives for hardware companies. nVidia and AMD really have no real reason to actively develop good drivers for linux. They're paid by Microsoft and software companies to develop drivers for windows and their software, they don't get paid really for linux drivers so it makes it just a money sink that they throw minimal resources at so they can claim to be "Supporting Open-source innovation" for marketing bullshit.

If nVidia and AMD, and a few other hardware sections that don't jump to mind atm, developed drivers for linux with the same amount of effort as they develop windows drivers, then users would switch over and software companies would have reasons to develop for linux because they will have the market force to make that profitable.

In my mind, it all hinges on the hardware companies. Their are OSS solutions for the driver issues but really they can't stack up to the drivers built by the actual companies for windows because they have to sort-of reverse engineer and plow their way through the layers of abstraction.

54

+1 to this, you don't realize what you can actually do until you have been on Linux for at least a week, sure there is no super support from AMD and Nvidia, but at least there are community devs out there helping :)

55

This is true to a point, as said by zoltan, if we all stopped using MS, linux would take over in months, shame that this wont happen, Hardware is there to a point, we have OSS alternatives built into the kernel, but these dont always match the actual drivers, RadeonSI is the only driver I know that out performs Catalyst, Nvidia, well forget that...

If we are to move forward, we need to ditch the companies and move OSS, if it all moves to Linux, the companies will then compete with the OSS devs, making an interesting game on the software side ;)

56

The two recurring defenses for linux seem to be:

1. People are lazy and/or stupid if they can't or do not want to learn linux.

2. Linux is everywhere and in everything we use in our everyday lives yet they still use Windows for their computers.

Response:

1. There are so many extremely smart people in the world that are just not interested in technology the way we are.  Yes practically everyone uses computers no matter the profession, but a lot of the time they are browsing the web, checking their emails, or putting together a presentation for a meeting.  Why should they take time to learn about an area that they have zero interest in, when they already have something that works perfectly fine for them.  Obviously all the people on this forum have a pretty good if not excellent knowledge and interest in computers, programming etc, but that's not for everyone.  I believe the keyword here, that Razor512 first brought up in post #15 is "intuitive".  For the average user, computers are suppose to make their life easier, quicker and more efficient.  Turn on your computer, click on what you need, and go to work.  Isn't that the whole theory behind Apple computers? and look how successful they are.  As a University student, it disgusts me to look around my lecture hall and see all the lit up apples around me, but people pay for something that is simple to use, if they don't have much computer knowledge.  Yes, it would be great for everyone to switch to linux and for us to teach it to our kids as they grow up but unfortunately, I don't see that happening.  

2. Yes, maybe everything around us in our daily lives uses linux, our alarm clock, your parking meter, or even facebook.  You have to think not what's behind the face of it, but what's on the front.  Your alarm clock is extremely INTUITIVE and easy to use.  Your parking meter you simply drop a quarter in, and the time pops up, and you're good.  Facebook.... you get my point.  All of these tools in our daily life are extremely easy to use.  yes, they run linux, but they are essentially flawless, and you don't have to resort to a forum to figure out how to pay for your parking.  Linux just isn't intuitive for the average user.  I'm not necessarily saying linux is the problem, but when everyone has grown up and learned based on the windows style of computing, it's hard to imagine linux taking over the desktop market.   

 

I will admit, I don't have much experience with linux, but I have read a lot about it and am very interested and definitely going to try it on my laptop when my pc is finally built.  I am a tech savvy person and am confident I won't have many issues with it.  Unfortunately, I just feel that linux doesn't work for the average user that just wants to complete simple tasks on their computer, which is the majority of the market.

57

Perhaps you should have more experience with Linux before saying it isn't intuitive or saying anything about it. Linux is just a kernel - being "intuitive" comes from the WM or DE/the interaction with it, and the layers on top of the kernel. Also, intuitive is relative - just like someone's efficiency with a specific program (for example, text editors like Vim vs. Emacs). Performance, features, security, and support are what should be discussed, not relativistic personal preferences.

58

Im doubtfull GNU/Linux will ever become pre-installed on PC's, unless the world agree's on one main consumer distro for the average user. One of the problems will be tech support. With thousands of different distro's, imagine how hard it is to fix all these different problems on all these different distro's. Another problem is selling these machines. As far as I know, most computers are bought in retail stores like Best Buy with pre-installed OS, then the consumer can choose between a computer with a well known OS, or a new one with a very scary terminal on it. This is probably whats holding back selling GNU/linux PC's, its arguably just not very affordable for the manufacturer.

59

Red Hat, Novell, and maybe Canonical  could do do it.They all already sell support for their enterprise distros. They need to box it and have it preinstalled on OEM hardware but that would get rid of the whole free as in beer Linux. ChromeOS/Android work because it is free and has tech support, but you let Google harvest your data. There will always be a trade off. Most companies don't want to rely on forums for tech support.

 

Also Linux needs to be taught in school. We would get much more computer literate populace if we did.

60

Teaching linux at school is something I have been thinking of alot. It would be a huge starting point for moving linux into the bigger market, aswell with DVORAK and touch-typing exersises. To get to that point however, we need contributors to go to schools to convince linux is the way to learn.