Beati pauperes spiritu...
Thanks for the comments guys. My whole point in making this is to see everyones point of view. Well I still have a big point to tackle. Why leave windows if i can just use steams big picture mode there and leave it quickly and go use my productivity applications? It is really impossible for Linux to cater to people as much as windows does with gaming and productivity within the next 10 years unless they hire a bazillion people to make it happen sooner. No matter what anyone says its kind of pointless for steam to have their own OS in my opinion because it takes me five minutes to unplug my PC put it in the living room and hook it up to the tv. In any case my Pc is already plugged into a tv and i also use it for productivity. And if i had the extra money laying around I would rather build another machine as a backup productivity/gaming machine. My point is if i bother to get another PC its gonna be a fully capable productivity/Gaming machine or im not buying it. I dont buy a PC just to have another console that cant do everything. I built a PC a few weeks ago because I wanted a multimedia powerhouse and not steam big picture mode. People dont just build PC's to game. The whole allure of a Pc is that its multi capable and until theres another simple to use operating system out there that can do everything like windows then its not gonna take off and i dont really see it happening for another ten years atleast for linux.
Nobody that is a real PC gamer wants the Pc to turn into another console. This will make it turn into another console. Unless you can easily put windows or another OS on it. Big picture mode kinda sucks....its kinda pointless.....
Im interested to see what it turns out like, i agree with alot of the posts, think i used a linux version 15 years ago and it just irritated the crap outa me and so im actually looking forward to trying out a new version of it (yes i stuck with windows cos im lazy and cba to learn linux).
I hope its an all round OS, i don't mind if its heavily game orientated but for me to use it, it would have to be able to do browsing,video and light audio work, if as some stated its just locked to a "steam big picture" screen ill just stick with windows. I may have it on a diff HDD but i really don't want to have to "swop" everytime i wanna play a game/browse/movie etc.
i absolutly love how half of the linux users on this forum are blind fanboys who just have to argue with people, just love it
some of us use windows, some of us use mac os, and some of us use linux, it's generally a just a choice of what ui they perfer (and yes it's a preference, nothing is truely better or worse), or what pieces of software they cannot live without, and as phantom has been trying to say: why are we even dicussing this
We are discussing this because I wanna know what the point of having a PC if you cant do anything multimedia/productivity. I mean it seems like only dumb rich guys are gonna have a "steambox" because people who understand the real point of owning a PC know for a fact that they are used for more than gaming on steams big picture mode. If steambox exists its just gonna be a console unless someone puts windows or any other multimedia OS. I use OSX and windows. They are both so easy to use why would I want to switch to something that doesnt over multimedia support right out of the box. the phrase Personal Computer to me = Multimedia Powerhouse. In otherwords no limits. Windows has allowed this to happen and I will not support any Operating system for my Personal Computer that does not foster Productivity and gaming as one. One operating system many uses. This wont happen with Linux any time soon but if it does ill be happy to use linux. As for steam.....Big picture mode is kind of a joke.
oh you did mention productivity... ha, i'm an idiot sometimes
Difference is: the linux users have used Windows, often have used Mac, and often have even used SCO/UNIX, and therefore know what they are talking about when they say that Windows ad Mac are dumb software consoles in comparison to Linux, whereas most of the Windows and OSX and console operating system fanboys only talk crap about linux because they don't know it and are afraid of what they don't know, so they try to talk it down. It's a classic case of xenocyberphobia, being afraid of computer technology because it's unknown. There is a simple remedy against discomfort caused by linux fanboiism, and that's learning linux. At that point, you'll know who's right and who's wrong.
I've never met a single person that really knows linux, and that prefers a software console like Windows. So in my experience, those that criticize linux just do so because they have no clue.
That's not to say that there aren't good reasons to use software or hardware consoles: the unfortunate people that have to use Adobe Premiere and AfterEffects and LightRoom, because those people truly have a point that because of the creepy monopolistic attitude of Adobe that prevents their software being run on open source operating systems, they can't exclusively use linux for their work, and for someone that needs to use those programs, using OSX is in fact a necessary evil, and evidently it's also a fact that most gamers, most linux using gamers included, will also have a contained copy of Windows somewhere to play legacy games, and if I want to play Disney Infinity with my six year old, I won't run it in Dolphin in Linux because the output resolution of the Wii games is much too small to enjoy it on a 1440p screen and it tends to speed up the game's animated intermissions and cause artefacts there because the game logic is calculated for the much slower processing Wii, so I'll use a Wii console for it because a six year old doesn't understand time base errors.
So yeah, there is place for software and hardware consoles, even in productivity with Adobe as a pencil or filmcutter-replacement tool, but they have nothing to do with computing, and criticism against linux and linux users from the point of view of a software console like Windows, is just a sign of ignorance and weakness. And that's not even open for debate. There are much more mobile devices out there than PC's these days, especially if you draw the statistics per number of hours of daily use. Linux has over 90% of the enterprise server and big data market, and has over 40% of the consumer graphical interface programmable application processor based devices market, which includes PCs, and of which Windows has less than 32%. So those that talk crap about linux must really be on an island that's slowly sinking into the sea, because most of them use linux more hours per day than they use their beloved Windows software console.
As I said, I game in Windows, I think it's perfectly OK to use a console, whether a Windows PC or a Wii, it serves a purpose. It's just ridiculous to criticize linux because that exposes the linux critic as a n00b picking on things he doesn't know, and it's ridiculous to even compare linux to software consoles like Windows or OSX. Fact: you can do more with an Android phone, rooted, debloated and without gapps of course, than with a Windows PC, the moment you install Windows on a PC, you're throwing away most of the performance and possibilities of the hardware you've bought, and most of the rights of use of the multimedia content you've bought. People that do that, can't then go and criticize linux or open source users without a clown's nose and a funnel on their head...
grr i wanna try linux again now hahaha.
im a gamer (tera,steamgames,war thunder), i play games, watch movies (divx web player/flash/vlc/netflix) etc and browse web pages, use skype/ts/vent.
So can someone here who uses linux tell me how hard it would be to do this on a linux based machine??
using windows as an example, install game, open firewall, patch and play, whats the linux version of this process?
It's not fair to compare a software console with a computing operating system, but I'll go along with it:
Linux process for installing and running a game, I'll give the example of Xonotic for instance, because a Steam game as example is useless because it's exactly the same as in Windows, the Steam client being a software gaming console, running it on Linux makes no difference at all:
1. "Oh I feel like playing a cool twitch shooter... I want to play Xonotic..."
2. <Super> "ad" (or "yu" for Fedora users, "ad" are the first two characters of "add/remove software", "yu" are the first two characters of "yumex", <Super> is the linux key, formerly also know as the Windows key, and fires up the system wide search on Gnome/KDE or the application finder/synapse on XFCE/Openbox), <Enter>, one µs later the package manager pops up, cursor ready in the search field...
3. "xo" (first two characters of "Xonotic", the game we want to install), <Enter>, ten µs later a list appears with Xonotic-game and Xonotic-data in it. The official repositories always keep the most up to date version of the game that's tested to work with the distro and the kernel installed on that particular system, so no need to worry about patching or updating. If there is a future update of the game, it will happen automatically with the system updates. For Fedora/RHEL users, the download size of updates will be reduced by typically 90% or more because of Delta RPM, which calculates the exact bits that need to be changed locally to apply the update, and only downloads those, instead of downloading data that doesn't change, so updates are much faster than on any other system.
4. two mouseclicks to check both of those entries, then one mouseclick to "Apply"...
5. A window pops up asking for the root password to install the software from the trusted official open source repository, type password, <Enter>...
6. Less than a minute later, a window pops up notifying that it is installed and the package manager asks if the user wants to quit the package manager, one mouseclick to close the package manager...
7. <Super> "xo", <Enter>, and 5 µs later the start menu of the game is running and it's ready to play at 160 fps or more on a normal modern machine, 280 fps or more on a high-end gaming rig, let's say at least 60 fps on an underpowered laptop (all at full resolution and maximum texture quality).
8. Don't have to worry about firewall, because firewalld, even in public profile (firewall profiles switch automatically when they detect a certain network, for instance, at home you use multimedia streaming in DLNA mode, and you want samba enabled, but of course you don't want that when you're at Starbucks or McDonalds, it switches automatically, nothing to do, nothing to worry about. When Xonotic tries to contact a game server, that would be an "established, related" connection, so it would be recognized by firewalld and automatically filtered so that it only serves Xonotic, and not any other application or file system access. The game server can be reached, but the firewall stays up without having to open any ports up.
9. Total time between decision to want to play and being in game: less than 1 minute on standard DSL bandwidth. Total number of mouseclicks to install and play the game: 4, all center screen. Total number of key presses without root password for installation (and you can also install it without root access and run it locally in the /home folder, but I wanted to keep it simple): 12. Number of unwanted bloatware installed: 0, Number or malware risks or privacy invasions: 0, number of unwanted data traffic: 0, total size of the install: about 1 GB, total license cost of the game: 0, total number of Digital Rights Management items: 0.
Now please detail click per click and keypress per keypress what you have to do to install a game and run a game in Windows, as well as the time between the decision of wanting to play the game and the total cost, and let's compare...
Some people on this forum are brain damaged maniacs. They brand everyone as a fanboy who doesn't align with their opinion on stuff that doesn't even require an opinion because it's quantifiable.
it's generally a just a choice of what ui they perfer
And this, my dear maniac, is just the most stupid sentence I've ever heard on this forum. And that means a lot.
why are we even dicussing this
Simple: Because some people here believe and say that linux isn't as good as windows, which is plain wrong.
I mean it seems like only dumb rich guys are gonna have a "steambox" because people who understand the real point of owning a PC know for a fact that they are used for more than gaming on steams big picture mode.
Most people don't need a whole PC because everything they want to do is playing games. Maybe they have a workstation at their job, maybe they don't even do anything with a PC, maybe, maybe... There are many cases in which you just don't need a full PC. Most people in this category bough a console or use a PC just for gaming and that's who valve is aiming at.
You're not everyone.
They are both so easy to use why would I want to switch to something that doesnt over multimedia support right out of the box.
It does.
In otherwords no limits
Talking about windows in the next sentence... lol.
I will not support any Operating system for my Personal Computer that does not foster Productivity and gaming as one.
This is implying that you can't use linux for productivity and gaming. You can.
One operating system many uses.
And still, you're using windows.
This wont happen with Linux any time soon but if it does ill be happy to use linux
Time to switch.
As for steam.....Big picture mode is kind of a joke.
For you. Remember: You're not everyone.
There's no "isn't as good as" or "better than".
There's "isn't as good for" or "better for". Unless, of course, you want to imply that linux is better than windows at everything.
You know what, I fully agree with that statement, Windows is in fact a much better software console and cuttroath consumer commercial entertainment consumption than any mainstream linux distro will ever be, but it's not as good as commercial cuttroath consumer entertainment consumption software consoles based on linux, because the number of PC's is dropping and the number of linux console devices is rising, and that includes SteamOS, which is a PC software console.
But please, don't even compare a consumer software console with a real computing operating system, there is no comparison, it's like comparing a walker (the mobility aid, not the star wars vehicle) with a Ferrari FF.
Hey, not everyone uses devices with application processors and GUI's for computing, and that's alright, as I said, I use them too, they serve a purpose, but just don't compare, and certainly don't say that linux has less applications or is less userfriendly, because that only demonstrates that you're talking about something you don't know anything about.
How does this change the fact that users don't choose to use linux on their PCs?
Are you for real? Well...because most users don't choose anything, at all! They are fine with Windows because that's what they get when they buy a PC. They know nothing of what an OS is, they will never lift their asses to try something different because windows is the default and it -kinda- works. That's why people don't use Linux...because they get what they're given, and nobody gives you linux. You gotta take it by yourself.
Think about Android devices, they are the overwhelming majority in mobile market, and that's Linux. How come Android is more popular than Windows mobile? Because most devices come with Android as opposed to Windows Mobile, and people won't even bother. Hell, most don't even know what Android is, because they don't care.
There are more people who know about linux and don't use it at home than those who do. Just because doing so is inconvenient.
There are more people who know about linux and don't use it at home than those who do.
Probably, but there are almost no people at all that know linux (instead of know about linux) that use anything else on their computing devices. There is no way back.
Just because doing so is inconvenient.
That is an incongruence, because linux is more convenient for home use than any other computing operating system like BSD or SCO/UNIX or Minix etc... except on legacy gaming consoles, which can be more convenient for gaming than PCs in certain circumstances, like I mentioned, for instance when playing Disney Infinity with a 6 year old. Of course, it might also be inconvenient for those that don't know linux yet, because they might be afraid of discovering the world of computing, or have absolutely no need for it, which is acceptable, but in that case they should not express an opinion on that which they don't know.
Sure lots of people may have heard about linux, but they are either not interested or have no clue what the thing is about. They may even think that's way too geeky, that you must be some kind of brainiac to use a Linux OS - which was kinda true back in the '90s -, but reality is that most people have no clue on how to install an operating system. That's not like they went buying their Windows OS and installed it on a blank machine.
The general rule in subjective matters like this: don't tell other people what's convenient for them.
discovering the world of computing, or have absolutely no need for it
Define 'world of computing' in practical terms.
Just check out some other linux threads on the forum, there's already a small tip of the iceberg there, and then start using linux and discover it for yourself, that's still the best way...