Why is Wendell so smart? (brain dump with questions at end)

I didn’t know how to tag this so let me know if there is a better place for it.

It seems like Wendell has quite the background in computer hardware. Sure I have talked to guys who know there stuff but it is pretty rare to see people who can also talk to the public about complex topics.

I am curious though as to what sort of background Wendell comes from. He has a level of black magic that few people can actually match. I can relate as I like to dig into computer things and get really technical. I am no where near computer janitor level but maybe with some time I can get there. I seriously wonder what the next 20-30 years will look like. Eventually the people who know there stuff will be ready to be done and the younger generation will take over. What I have noticed is that there is a specific group of people that have a natural curiosity and drive to get technical with systems. I think Wendell and many of the computer janitor type crowd have a desire to understand the world and to tinker which ultimately drives the world around. The key is to spread that knowledge down the line so that we get some fresh blood while still having experienced people working and driving things forward.

What kind of background does Wendell (or any computer janitor) come from? I assume that it is a mix of technical knowledge from a university plus lots of experience. I see a lot of people in r/sysadmin saying how they think university is pointless which in someways is fair. However, I think training people to be procedure oriented instead of problem solvers is terribly problematic. There are plenty of people who come out of university being great at tests but I don’t think that is everyone. University can also build knowledge and skills that are the basis for a deeper understanding of computers. I have talked to younger Linux admins who are great with installing updates and creating cron jobs but if you ask them to color outside the lines they are helpless. They aren’t bad people but they just don’t tinker in there free time.

Sorry this post is a mess but hopefully you see what I am saying

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I wasn’t watching pre-rebranding, but my understanding is it gets kept private for doxxing reasons but it’s implied he works in a fairly large, possibly known company in a senior position?

I mean, regardless I am continually fascinated.

An exceptional understanding of topics discussed
“Best way to understand something is to teach it”

a lifetime of bein a nerd professionally and recreationally combined with an insatiable appetite to learn

Not from my experience. We had a woman bring in her 90 year old husband’s old computers for recycling after he passed. The R720 piqued my interest, so you can imagine the surprise when it was loaded with 6x 2TB HGST enterprise drives configured in RAID, 860 evo SSD in his main rig. We pulled the drives to wipe them and a pair of 4TB drives labeled Torrent Shows, Torrent Movies. The router they brought in was configured with a vlan to vpn. Grandpa was a tech monster.

plenty of sysadmins on this forum

You need a foundation to build on. Corporate SOP is a great baseline, but if you can get people learning best practices before they learn how to wreck shit: even better. Computer systems engineering is one of the only engineering disciplines that lacks professional organization membership requirement. I’ve been an IEEE member since I took my first electrical engineering college course in high school, and there’s a reason it exists.

Computers are very much a wild west / shit show because anyone can pop out and claim to be a MSP / sysadmin but that allows innovation to thrive. IEEE requires current vs. wire size standards, but that would create massive problems in systems engineering. Best practice this year could be deprecated next year.

Also, don’t take anything from Reddit as professional advice. It’s an echo chamber/hug box. Users here adamantly disagree and voice that (check the alternative energy threads for the worst of it).

That’s every discipline. Frankly, that’s needed as you do not want a sysadmin reinventing the wheel or deploying untested methodologies in prod. Devops engineers can think outside the bun, but need to test and test first.

The key is wanting to know how things work … all the things.

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I have a T-shirt from a now defunct US-based Linux magazine. It says:
“Geek by nature, Linux by choice”

Excellent summary, IMO. :nerd_face:

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He has a brain implant, duh.

He is the terminator… (scary music)

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Technology was the only real “escape” from “the holler.”

I haven’t been particularly good with people, so not a lot else to take up time except reading, working and tinkering with things.

I went to college, got a BS in computer science, looked at grad school including spending some time at MIT and University of Washington; entertained seriously the idea of going there for grad school to work on a phd in cs. Did a lot of “odd jobs” (computer janitoring) but had a few really interesting big clients/projects. Went to work for what would become a .com pretty early on. Then another, and another and just got a knack for building things that haven’t been built yet. And a number of failed projects (you tend to learn more from failure than from success. Also sometimes your success can be so good that its scares the hell out of everyone and they freak out in various ways). And I have managed to build a team and network of no-nonsense talented folks that allow me to live vicariously through their experiences, but also tap them if something crazy comes along. And I’m also fortunate in that I have a few particularly well-off situations I’m involved in that compensate well for work that I do.

I like living vicariously through the success of others, and understanding their failures and successes, which help me with the things I’m interested in. It’s really not “so smart” but more that I’m so stubborn that after I trip over a land mine I’m right back out there again, working on the mine field again immediately.

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I have a feeling that growing up poor forces a person to be creative with whatever constraints they have. Understanding the limitation of what you can and cannot do and skirting around and bending those rules that everyone is afraid of navigating.

There is also growing up with McGyver “never say die attitude” and a spirit of resourcefulness. Coupled this with sci-fi idealism from Star Trek and the exploration of human values and somehow this helps in the understanding of the suffering of the common man - you the “user”.

Wait I forgot what I was talking about…

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I assure you, your ability to ‘people’ makes some of us look non-human. The more I am forced to mingle in ‘CoPo (not the car)’ the more I am rooting for the AI overlords to hurry up and take over.

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Amen.

I don’t like plebbit, but I agree with the sentiment. I’ve gone to university too, it didn’t help with s***. Most of the things taught at uni, I either learned in high school, or were useless (like Keynesian economics). Some math problems were kinda new to me (like algorithms for calculating the shortest path, which I forgot already how to do, but I found that interesting at the time).

But nothing even compares to what I learned while working. Even now, in my homelab, I don’t have a lot of opportunity to learn a lot (well, TBH I also have other non-tech projects I worked on over the years, like loft bed and a parcel box, which out of necessity made me learn how to use basic features in FreeCAD).

I’m pretty sure Wendell learned things in his own time and had a bigger drive to learn than myself, but he also found challenges and worked to overcome them and that’s how he learned. At least that’s what I can gather from the few times he talked about his past when he was a growing up janitor-in-training. I vaguely remember him talking about the monstrosities he saw in school, when he made new systems that were rejected by the school’s IT admins, because it would basically lead to a lot of people’s demise (basically playing politics over innovation, which I’m sure Wendell saw a lot of these horror stories in his lifetime).

You can say that twice. Here’s some wise words from Laurent Bercot.

The other more or less viable development model for a project is to be company-driven: making up for the lack of technical excellence with manpower and procedures. Needless to say, companies usually do not produce either free or good software, and they are not efficient at doing so.


If you come from a lower education institution of different expertise (like, idk, high-schools that feature wood-working classes, which I would’ve loved to have in my high-school), then going to an university to learn some IT makes some amount of sense. However, it’ll have filler crap that you might not even want to learn (like in my case, economics). And most of what you want to learn, you can learn at home, if you offer yourself enough time to “get bored” and not have to work on the side.

Having a job and trying to learn other skills on the side take a very long time (I was taking time off from work to work on things like my loft-bed, my first wood-working project that I overbuilt).

If they haven’t, they should’ve automated their tasks already. Even things like rundeck on a timer would be ok, if not something nicer, like a monitoring agent with some automation (like have a few test servers update automatically and if things go south, stop the update on prod - delay the update between test and prod by about 2 weeks or so, except for security patches). I’ve been bash scripting and pssh’ing a lot when I was managing my own servers.

I thought he has his own consulting company.

This. Writing documentation and trying to teach people about a product is how you learn. That’s why I tried writing a lot of stuff about s6 a few months back (currently on hiatus again, too many other stuff going on).

I’d argue it’s a terrible thing. In the computer janitor world, things like ISO 27k1 is decent standard to follow, but it’s mostly a baseline and some thing don’t really make a ton of sense (particularly documenting procedural stuff for compliance sake, instead of having a log / journal done for internal auditing - there’s a bunch of companies that are doing things mostly for the accreditation, without having the smart people to actually do the good things one’s supposed to do). I used to do the 27k1 SOP docs and do the yearly audit - it was crap and I barely had time to actually work on that. Instead, I focused on what actually mattered, like deploying OCI-Inventory to check people’s laptops for hardware and software changes and comparing old versions of stuff for vulnerabilities. I wanted to implement more stuff, like an internal updates server, but that was a long way to go (without any budget to work with).

I mean, that’s true for many things. Always have safeties like alias rm=“rm -i” and stuff and teach people not to use rm -rf blindly (and have safety measures for when they do). Or better yet, teach them to always use rm -i manually. After I left my previous company, someone I trained and was doing a decent job, managed to delete my whole samba user configuration. He called me, panicked, because people were reporting they couldn’t access their files anymore.

Thankfully, I set automatic backups and talked with my other colleague (we got hired around the same time) and I told him to grab the backed up samba files and slap them back in place. What can I say, mistakes were made. That guy was fine, it was just an oopsie, but he probably learned his lesson the hard way, causing down-time to around 80 people, lmao. And yes, I’ve documented how samba works and how I configured it, but the guy was in panic mode, afraid he might lose his job.

You can say that twice (like the example above).

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OCS-Inventory*

I think you are on to something here. Quite frankly, I believe Uni is a poor place to educate programmets and engineers, most get a comp science degree where the meat of the education is theory, 95% of which is just gatekeeping BS. There are some decent theoretical material but most of it? Only reason it is worth paying tuition for is because you need the title to have anyone take you seriously enough for that first job.

Most great engineers learn by building things, see it explode in a spectacular fashion, and build it better next time. Rinse, repeat, and remember; there is nothing wrong with building a castle in a swamp, that is how you learn.

I believe that all trade professions should educate on the job and expect that to be the norm. It is not where we are today; it is where we need to go. Until the rest of society figure that out though… Have fun being a Alpha Lambda Tau simp :grin:

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perfect

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Tell me you are a gen Z without telling me you are a gen Z :wink: I was referring to this thou:

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I think shrek (at least the first one) falls more millennial. But yeah I almost posted something about burning down, falling over, then sinking.

I’m not sure what you guys are doing but normally you need at least Calc 2 if not higher plus all the other technical classes.

At some point you need to try new things and take risks. It is probably not the smartest to do that on production but that is why you have a testing environment either at work or at home.

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Yes, and no. Uni teach like 90% theory and 10% practice, but engineering is a trade based on a set of skills. You wouldn’t hire a carpenter based only on their ability to make pretty drawings and explain the optimal angle of how to cut a board with a saw. If they can do that, great. But the meat and potatoes of a carpenter is how they handle a saw, hammer and screwdriver.

The regular CS student go out into the workforce, knowing all about computers, only to end up in a shop where they get told “Make the background of this phone app red instead of blue”. So 90% of their talent gets wasted almost immediately.

As for the maths, well… When was the last time you as a software developer required multivariable calculus for, well, basically anything? I can count the number of instances on a single hand when I needed higher math skills, and even then the equations were pretty much all set on beforehand, so it was just a matter of getting the PC to do the equations fast enough.

That is not to say Uni is completely worthless, just that most things being taught really have no bearing on your future job tasks.

I would prefer a system where you can work as more in an apprentice role and take classes at a 50% pace or something. 10 years as an apprentice may seem like much but considering such a system both allows the student to contribute and gain valuable experience, as well as put whatever knowledge gained into experience faster, would be great for engineering students all over.

I would certainly not pay $100k tuitions per semester for this. Being $1M+ in debt out of the gate seem like a poor way to start your career…

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I was two generations away from growing up in the shadow of the coal towns. Not sure how life would’ve been if everyone had just stay put but I’m grateful they didn’t.