Don't get me wrong, it's not my music, not really my scene either, but I'm just wondering why are these genres so despised by most and condemned as being true metal. Can someone help me out as I am (very) new to the metal scene. One of my mates just said that a lot of the bands are just plain shit, is that the case? Thanks.
Well Most Metalheads (At least the ones who listen to Black Metal / Death Metal / Thrash) hate Metalcore because they either
A. All sound the same.
B. It's just a bunch of guys screaming on the microphone about first world problems (I can't find a job, I can't find a woman, I hate everyone because they hate the way i am, no one gets me... etc)
Also before i annhilate your ears, just listen to these lyrics for the first 20 seconds. then stop the video and and redeem yourself with heavier metal. (on a sidenote Chris Motionless of Motionless in White disgraced himself by being in the video)
Plus you have listeners of Metalcore who think the bands they listen to is the greatest thing to ever hit the earth, but won't know about the classics (Like Judas Priest, Darkthrone, and or Death).
As for Nu-Metal. Honestly I don't know anyone who still listens to Nu-Metal now-a-days. all the kids / teens that used to listen to Nu-Metal jumped on the Metalcore train.. and back then I didn't really know anyone who hated Nu-Metal. they just didn't feel like listening to it. it was always more about Alternative Metal back then. so it was (Deftones, Linkin Park [Back when they were still actually a Metal Band] P.O.D, Drowning Pool, Disturbed, Staind) HOWEVER, I DID know a BUNCH of people who hated Slipknot. Sometimes for No reason. (Myself included) Slipknot wasn't for me, BUT it took time to grow on me, the debut album of Slipknot was like ehh... then they dropped IOWA and I was like okay now you caught my attention. but the problem with the IOWA album was that it started that phony "Fuck Religion" thing amongst teenagers (I'm 666) a bunch of dumb shit. but that's about it really. honestly after Slipknot dropped Iowa it drew a line between "What's real metal or what's fake metal" amongst the metal community. you had metal heads saying Slipknot was terrible or they were amazing, and similarly with Metalcore.
Folks have many different reasons. Here's my reasoning behind why I dislike metalcore and nu metal. Keep in mind that this is all generalized - there could be some not terrible metalcore/nu metal bands out there, but I wouldn't want to spend any time researching.
As a guitarist, I listen to metal mainly due to the instrumentation involved, especially focusing on guitar and drums. I'm a huge thrash metal nerd because during the heyday of thrash, bands still focused on writing awesome guitar riffs. These riffs were not only super heavy and crushing, but good ones were also very memorable. Most Nu metal/metalcore severely simplifies and waters down the more traditional metal sound. With regards to guitars, riffs are removed in favor of different combinations of simplified power chords, solos are removed in order to make songs shorter and more simplistic (usually for radio play), and techniques like cool palm-muted galloping patterns are removed as well. In regards to drums, many of the cool drum techniques that are staples of genres like thrash and death metal such as double kick and blast beats are removed in favor for a more water-down, simplistic approach as well. In my opinion, the reason behind this is that most nu metal bands just don't have the skill needed to utilize these techniques and produce anything meaningful. Nu metal is definitely a genre that a beginner at any instrument can pick up extremely quickly and jump into the scene. Most folks actually need to work hard to excel in other metal subgenres.
Because of the watered-downness of Nu Metal/metalcore, it became highly marketable and popular (anything that is simplified in order to appeal to the largest slice of society is usually inevitably popular). It was a sound that could appeal more to the average person who maybe wanted to listen to music that was a touch heavier than the pop indie rock on MTV or local top 40 radio, but who had no intentions of delving into the "super extreme!" (/s) genre of metal. Just as glam/hair metal became the face of all things "metal" during the early-to-mid eighties, nu metal became the average - the pop culture "metal" genre that was friendly to the Blink 182 fans who wanted to flirt with something a touch more exhilarating.
Enough ramblings. Hopefully some of this makes sense :D
OK, it's starting to make a little more sense. Honestly my disdain for metalcore is mostly because of what Kat said: It just seems to whine about first world problems. It doesn't seem to delve into anything deeper than teenage angst and sounds like MTV metal.
As for Nu metal I haven't really heard a lot of it and what little I have heard I don't really like. I'm afraid I can't quite analyse anywhere near the depth that Alamar can as I'm not a musician. But it just isn't my sound. But does this kind of debate run deeper than fads like Metalcore and Nu Metal? I mean I've heard hard core metal heads debate over the legitimacy of stuff like Power Metal, claiming its not "metal" enough (which I don't get since it's very closely modeled off New Wave Brit Metal). But is this kind of thing common in the metal community? (as I said I'm a metal newbie)
Sincerely thanks for the replies :D
From my observations there are basically 3 camps (if we generalize a whole lot, of course):
People who don't like nu metal or metalcore because of artificíal reasons, like "it's not true metal!", "they're just a bunch of teenage boys" or "who listens to this shit?". Some will even complain that these forms of music are "too popular", which would make them complete and total twats in my book (if you really enjoy music then you'd be happy for it to become popular and successful). Those are probably also the people who complain about power-metal not being "metal enough" when it is, in fact, the closest we have to actual heavy metal.
People who dislike it for legitimate reasons, @Alamar already provided quite a few good examples. It's either too simplistic or just the same shit we've heard before. Note that most of these people will also not flat out shit all over complete genres and be more reasonable about it.
And lastly, people who are mostly indifferent about it or just flat out don't enjoy it for any other reason. Sometimes a genre or style of music that you'd usually like just doesn't click with you, it happens.
That's basically it as far as I can tell, not all metalheads are nice and reasonable, there are also some elitist pricks out there. But they're definitely a vocal minority, all the tales of super-nice metalheads you've heard are largely true, and the ones who are assholes and twats on the internet probably don't have the guts to actually behave that way in real life anyway.
One of the most famous nu metal bands used to be Linkin Park back in the day. While their songs sound good, try to actually listen to the lyrics. I shit you not, those guys are so emo it makes me want to cut myself.
honestly though it was cause Chester Bennington (the vocalist) was on drugs during the whole Hybrid theory / Meteora Era. the sad cold truth about most musicians / aritsts. most, if not all of them wrote their best works while they were either depressed or on drugs. after Chester Bennington got cleaned (which is good) the band just fell off.
And to give a few notable examples.
Chester Bennington when he was on Drugs. wrote
- Hybrid Theory
Kurt Cobain of Nirvana was depressed and on Drugs wrote
- In Utero
Marilyn Manson, clearly was on drugs (watch the (S)aint video)
- Antichrist Superstar
- The Golden Age of Grotesque
- Mechanical Animals
- Holy Wood
Nine Inch Nails - Trent Reznor was on coke (I believe don't know the exact drug) when he wrote
- The Downward Spiral
- The Fragile
- Broken (EP)
Dude the list goes on lmao
Debates within subgrenres can be fairly commonplace, but most of the time they can be attributed to the fervor of the fans involved. Basically there has always been either fighting between heavy metal as a whole and society or infighting between metal genres themselves. Before the thrash vs. glam metal wars of the early 80's, the NWoBHM bands were causing concerns within the music industry, etc.
A lot of metal fans are enthusiasts and become super loyal to certain styles and bands. However, this doesnt mean that they are all asshats. As @anon10737550 noted, there is a minority of metal fans who are just trolling and think everything that they don't listen to sucks, while most fans are pretty open-minded or will at least have a discussion with you about why they don't like certain bands or genres. In the case of the "power metal is not metal enough" thinking, most of these types of ideas are perpetuated by younger fans who become fans of the more newly evolved heavier (which is a relative term) metal genres. As you stated, power metal has very close roots to NWoBHM, with its theatrical focus, higher-pitched clean vocals, and lyrical themes of magic, fantasy, etc. Some folks might call power metal "nerd" metal, since many of the themes discussed are straight out of D&D books, etc. In many cases - not just within music - sometimes the newer crowd will hold disdain for the older originals and, since power metal has decreased in popularity since the early 1990s, its become more of a niche thing which is always easier to poke fun at.
Because it sounds like garbage and the people who listen to it are really annoying.
EDIT: Then again..... I think just about all people are annoying. Everyone is annoying me. You are annoying me. Screw you guys. I'm going home.
But for real though, the people who are way into that type of music really irritate me. They tend to be the "scene" kids in high school and never grow out of it.
classic @1920_1080p_1280_720p :D
If you want to spot a metalcore fan. here's is an excellent photo.
P.S THEY ALL LOOK LIKE THIS IN SOME FORM OR FASHION.
hmm the eyebrows on top of the hair must be a new trend . . .
Idk about the eyebrows but they all look like that aesthetically.
must i continue? lmao
wait... no pink hat?
try banging your head with a cap on. If you're a Metalcore vocalist and you have a cap on, you're asking for it to fall off and be picked up by some underaged teenager, so that they could put it in their closet shrine of you.
Oh yeah. And it is easy to make fin of them. So there is that. That is likely a good source of all of the hate. Because we can.
So is it fair to say that people don't respect it because it's more "phase" music, instead of other metal genres that continue to have lifelong fans. I personally don't know anyone who has listened to Metalcore/Nu metal for more than 2 years (roughly), whereas I know tons who have been metal heads for easily 10 or so years. Is that a fair assessment? Or am I dismissing the content of the music too easily?
That seems pretty accurate from my perspective. You are forgetting about the fact that core literally just sounds awful. There is always that.
Plus they are always bitching and moaning about nonsense. Angsty non stop.
I've been listening to Black metal since 2006. and Death Metal since 2007. as for why people don't respect it, it's cause of my point i made earlier, they all sound the same and lyrically they are just screaming on the mic about first world problems.. the thing with metalcore too is that, most bands in that genre eventually just fall off, only a select few end up getting better with time. and personally the only band in that Metalcore scene that got better with time was Motionless in White. (And i say this cause they actually decided to do something different, they added industrial elements, some gothic metal and alittle black metal into the mix) everyone else stood with the same formula. which after a while people WILL get sick of especially when you're new and coming up.
I agree here. I feel like a lot of the "Core" and "nu" stuff are really watered down for the masses. It might be OK as a gateway drug, but most of it is angsty... or at least rudimentary. The breakdowns and such seem heavy because they hit hard, but there is nothing going on there. They slow down, there is an absence of technicality... then they chug hard... after that they sometimes hit some random annoying high notes to make it seem hard and shrill at the same time. I just think, "Well, at least these kids have a band, hopefully they will get better at their instruments."
When I want something that hits hard I go for intensity, theatrics, and brutality... like this:
Those songs still hit hard and I think they are more intense than 99% of the "core" out there while still chugging and scratching that itch.
TLDR: Core and Nu-metal are like reading Twilight. Real death and black metal are like reading A Song of Ice and Fire.