Oh I see, I was looking at RHEL specifically. Still, 31 vs 49 years. It’s not an insignificant difference.
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The current Mac OS and Windows are not that old either. The current roots of Mac OS dates back to 2000 / 2001 with the Mac OS X 1 release (If anything, before that it is based on NextSTEP from 1989 / 1990), and Windows in it’s current form got it’s roots from 1993’s Windows NT. So we are not talking about 49 years, but 34 at best.
Yeah, I watched this … I actually felt bad for Linus.
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But what I’m talking about is the 49 years of organizational experience, time in the market, and time in the customer’s mind. It’s not the same. Apple and MSFT are still nearly two decades older than Red Hat. That’s not insignificant, and it’s almost certainly at least one component of the popularity of platforms like Windows (Bill having been a real bastard back in the day).
I disagree. I am comfortable with the command line, but UX is important for general usability.
I’d rather click some settings panels than dig through config files. I’d rather click a button to mount my drive than dick around with fstab. As a developer I have no issue fighting with fstab learning about all these inner components.
But as a user who wants to do that? I just want to click button.
You haven’t met my grandma. Ain’t no way she could learn the command line. She will accidentally turn the wifi off then ask why the internet stopped working. But more than that why would she want to learn the command line?
Generalizations like “everyone can learn the command line” is simply not true.
I do agree with the sentiment that users need to at least learn some basic computer literacy. The real answer is somewhere in between.
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Ok … I get it … Though we have had unknowns upset the cookie cart all the time. For instance Tesla (even though it was founded by an brilliant idiot) changed the automotive industry in a shorter mount of time against corporations that are much older than Apple (GM and Ford where both founded in 1903, Chrysler was founded in the 1920’s). Hyundai, though founded in the 1960’s is another good example. I know it is a different industry, but it is a great example.
True, although it remains to be seen how Tesla performs in the long run (not unlike the linux desktop!)
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Tesla may die and fade away, but it’s mark on the automotive industry has been made. How many companies are making electric cars that our power grid supposedly cannot handle? The answer is all of them.
Inkscape and Krita are Top Notch. (I use them. . . ) Blender Grease Pencil will smooth out some edges for you too ( Please have a look. It’s amazing even for 2D art )
I left Windows 10yrs ago and basically gave up on my hobbies of art, gaming, literature and design. I gained a lot professionally, but lost a lot personally. I used a ton of Adobe products in the past. (Illustrator before Adobe owned it, and Ps since. . .'95/'96 ??? 
) I would say after 10yrs and adding back my beloved hobbies, Linux is in a great place, but you do need to change some things. Inkscape, Krita, GIMP ( 3.0 coming in a month ) Darktable, Blender now have all I need. One curious thing, since I did dial back my tools over the years I found better ways to work, and found it to be more focusing for me.
Not telling you what to do, just offering up my experience.
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I agree and think that claiming it won’t ever happen due to external factors is a crutch for those not wanting to admit that the software suite simply isn’t good enough to compete.
Linux as a desktop OS is already fine. Has been for decades.
It’s fine for some niche workloads.
But as a general purpose OS the apps just aren’t there for it.
Cross platform web apps may help matters, but they also work just fine on a tablet.
I feel the same. Now that I have found the minimal suite of tools to solve the problem, it’s simplified my life.
Less is more.
I agree with Blender being a fantastic alternative to Auto Desk Maya and MudBox, but Krita is not yet comparable to Clip Studio Paint, and since CSPs app development and update schedule is rapid I am not sure Krita will catch up any time soon.
As for Adobe Illustrator, are you sure you do not mean Aldus Freehand. I only ask because Adobe Illustrator was released in 1987. Freehand on the other hand was created by AltSys and licensed to Aldus in 1988. When Adobe purchased Aldus, Freehand was sold to Macromedia. When Adobe purchased Macromedia primarily for DreamWeaver and Flash which were added to Adobe’s Creative Suite, Fontographer was sold to another company, and elements of Freehand were added to Adobe Illustrator.
On that note I have used Inkscape, and it is a good start, though it pales in comparison to Adobe Illustrator (even Adobe Illustrator CS6) and Affinity Designer.
Short of the history of Adobe Illustrator, the rest is just my opinion on the matter.
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< heavy sigh >
Other then snap, appimage and flatpak, just how many “package managers” are there?
Package types: Source packages targz. Rpm, Deb, pacman and ? For the vast majority of distros IIRC ( and I am old so I may be wrong ) and their derivatives that’s about it. And most distros that I use all are “one click” installs, updates ( and I use more then one distro ).
So to me the “package manager” “problem” is nothing more then straight up bullshit and a non-issue to Linux usage. As is the " to many choies" “problem”. Or DE “problem”.
Hang on, I just got an update notification and I need to go press one button ( well three buttons actually ). For 2300+ updates ( rolling release ).
Now it’s time for me to make the hardest CHOICE that I will make today … “what am I going to make for lunch?”. We all make 1000’s of choices everyday. That’s life. Maybe a chicken sandwich. 
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Mmmmmm … I am down with the chicken sandwich … Maybe that will be dinner tonight. I agree with your statement on installers an package managers. I had 3 package managers on POP! OS and I didn’t have too many problems. I am seriously waiting for their Cosmic DE just to see what they do with the whole UX situation. Though, I am not holding my breath that it will be an optimum silver bullet.
I agree that Linux is not a household name for the bulk of normies, but I don’t understand why you would suggest that it is not a viable alternative to Apple and Microsoft for most people. I’ve also been using Red Hat since +/- 1996 to build appliances (e.g. routers and print servers) and I’ve been using Linux virtually exclusively as my desktop since 2010. With the progress that the Steam/Proton devs have made, I honesty can’t remember the last time that I booted a Windows machine … and gaming is the only reason that I’ve kept a Windows box around. I’ve switched several folks over to Linux and they haven’t looked back. In my experience, casual computer users have no problem using Linux, while self-described Windows Power users tend to struggle, because they want Linux to function like Windows.
I respect the preference for Adobe products, but the number of people who actually “need” Adobe programs are a relatively small subset of the general population. Therefore, I’m not completely convinced that this is the massive hurtle to Linux adoption that it is sometimes made out to be. As @Hammerhead_Corvette points out, there are alternatives to Adobe, but like those Windows power users, you may need to change the way that you do things. Of course if you prefer not to change your workflow, that doesn’t make you a bad person.
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That is actually what matters.
Consumerism in the computing space is actually driven by business IT infrastructure. All of the purpose driven, durable and nice no-nonsense devices are all in the business IT space. It is not us that dictates what becomes the mainstream but the business and government that purchase everything in bulk for their offices, home offices, off-shore office and overseas.
The consumer cannot scale as much as business do. All the nice technology that we have in the computing space primarily goes first to the enterprise space first and as production and maturity goes, it becomes cheaper and drips eventually into the consumer space.
Business is all that matters, especially in the hardware. The software is merely tacked along.
Eh, my friend you are in this forum. There are no normies here. 
You are forgetting the rest stuff in space, in the moon and in Mars. Most are Linux. They have windows on the ISS, of course but not on the critical operations.
Debian is amazing in that it is entirely volunteer driven. A lot of Linux distros piggy backs on Debian, which is amazing!
Also the bookworm install has gotten significantly better from what buster has been.
Linus knows enough Linux and the command line to be a danger to himself in the command line. He is in a weird user category.
Hey man devs and software engineers also need to relax and do normal stuff when they get home and not do their day job too…
I’d argue this: 2020/2021 but maybe not last decade?
Somehow I think you got it the other way around? Pure basic and single player gaming desktop is fine enough. You can browse the web as well as in windows, type basic documents, have a mail, calendar and contacts client, use your printer and scanner, read a PDF, scrible a simple drawing.
Niche workloads will always be niche workloads regardless of the OS.
Agreed.
I do realize that we need better PR too with a good marketing campaign and no one wants to spend that much money with pretty much no ROI.
We also need the vast papercut fixes that most devs dont want to bother with when there are more critical issues to address.
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DONT TELL ME TO RELAX!
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while holding coffee with trembling hands 
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Because it is not. It has a learning curve, and in the case of some distros installing and using Linux for my neighbors is a non-starter. Most people do not understand what happens at the operational level when you click on a file, or double click on a file. They are happy knowing that things just work when they double click on that icon. App Images do not always work when double clicked. You sometimes have to right-click on them and select “run as program” or “run as application.”
It is a perception, critical thinking, and education problem. The things that have been tossed to the side to bridge the digital divide to make technology accessible to everyone. Change that simplicity for even minor operational changes and the ability to use the technology breaks down.
As per my use cases Clip Studio Paint is better than Krita (I am not saying that I do not like Krita, just that it is not as good as Clip Studio Paint). The same is true for the rest of the apps I use. It is about the workflows I have designed over the years, and the fact that Inkscape, Gimp, and Krita do not compete as well (I am not trying to start an argument here … I keep trying Krita, Gimp, and Inkscape in hopes that they have become competitive because I see what Windows is becoming, and I do not want to be here when things go pear shaped. Their next step is to strong arm Windows 10 users into using 11 or 12.).
At a 6% user installed base Linux should be higher if you count all of the cheapskates that live in the town I live in. A free OS that can help keep a computer current longer should appeal to tons of people, but it doesn’t. Hence the question that defines this topic.
True. Mobile phones have become repulsive.
But the difference is that Linux isnt just one big bloated corp like apple or mircosoft.
No sane distro would start windowsifying their OS by placing ads in the startmenu. We just wont use that distro. If a distro turns shitty, you just hop away.
The fragmentation of the linux ecosystem is a double edged sword.
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