Hello all,
A few days ago I bought a new laptop: TongFang X4SP4NAL with AMD HX370 CPU (this is the original unaltered model that some Linux-laptop brands use as a base for their models, for example Tuxedo). So far I’m very happy with this machine, except for 1 problem: its USB4 port is quite moody: it often randomly refuses to connect with my Plugable TBT3-UDV dock and ADT-Link UT4G eGPU adapter (their leds indicate no connection). Sometimes it “kinda works” but not fully: for example dock-connected displays are listed as “unknown” and only 640x480 resolution is available. Disconnecting and connecting a few times or shuffling randomly between various cables sometimes helps, but sometimes not. Both the dock and the adapter as well as all the cables work perfectly fine with several other laptops, including almost identical TongFang GX4 model (8845HS CPU) and 2 Dell laptops I was using before (XPS-13 9360 and Latitude 7430). Some cable+device mixes never work with this laptop while work with the others: for example I can connect my Plugable dock to this laptop only with my old passive Belkin TB3 cable, but not with the USB4 cable included with my UT4G nor with my active TB4 Belkin cable. The most reliable way to make it all work is to boot the machine with all the devices connected, but this defeats the hot-plugging and mobility features.
Is this a hardware problem with the port on this laptop like introducing too much noise or signal reflections? Or maybe a firmware / BIOS problem? The fact that disconnecting+connecting helps makes me think a hardware problem is more likely, but OTOH almost 100% success when booting with everything connected makes me consider a firmware problem as well… (I know almost nothing about low-level stuff so please bear with me if my thoughts don’t make much sense).
When it does not work, in the logs I can see entries like “new low-speed USB device” and boltd never fires up. I’m almost sure it’s not an OS-level problem as I was running the same OS on all of the mentioned laptops (Debian Trixie) and I even booted this new machine with several older kernel versions that worked fine with the other laptops and the mentioned dock and adapter.
I will be grateful for any help with mitigating or investigating this problem!
This sounds like issues related to OSPM, power management inside Linux. Check against your working laptop to see any difference for the new one. You could also download a trial version of Windows 11, and see if you face the same problem.
The AMD processor provides the USB4 port(s). So I think it’s less a hardware or firmware issue but surely can’t rule it out the possibility.
Could you please point me to what settings exactly you have in mind? In terms of power management, I have never played with anything more advanced than what to do on laptop lid close (so otherwise all the machines should have exactly the same default setting of Debian Trixie).
You still need traces going through the mobo, the port itself and a few resistors/capacitors around that. I’ve heard that poor soldering of these components (which happens from time to time even when performed by machines) may cause signal degradation, which may exactly prevent high-speed devices from functioning properly, no?
Also someone suggested to me in the mean time, that the fact it sometimes-works/sometimes-not may mean that one of such related basic electrical components is faulty and trying to give its last breaths: does it sound reasonable? (I myself know nothing about hardware, just repeating what I was told regarding this by various more knowledgeable ppl during last 2 days, so please bear with me).
These are possible if the vendor’s quality assurance process is sub-par. Though it’s less likely for goods from China intended for the EU market. Also, the fact that you reported ~100% stability if everything is connected before the new laptop is powered on. Kind of ruling out poor QC issue for me.
I would say get a RMA if available to quickly rule out QC issue.
Well, after the Nvidia’s missing ROPs I don’t have much confidence in anyone’s QA process anymore ;-]
I’ve been trying to get a mobo replacement from the moment I noticed the problem on Tuesday evening, but laptopparts4less (the place I bought it from after I saw their good reviews on trustpilot) keeps stalling. My favorite quotes so far:
we sell laptops for almost 15 years now and have never experienced a faulty USB/USB-C port.
[After explaining that I’ve tried 3 different certified cables with 2 other laptops: ]
Could you perhaps try a different cable and have you tried the other USB-C port?
(this machine has only 1 USB4 port, the other one is 3.x: something they really should be aware of…)
Yesterday they sent me a BIOS update, but it hasn’t changed much (the issue may be a bit less frequent, but this may as well be my optimistic bias).
NEW FINDINGS:
Even when booted with everything connected, under somewhat heavier load of the USB4 connection, things fall apart: I tried to play some game and every few minutes sound (routed via the mentioned dock to my external speaker system) was completely disappearing (until a reboot) and log entries about USB timeouts were appearing:
Jun 28 17:22:33 morg-m2ext-256gb kernel: usb 9-2: 1:0: usb_set_interface failed (-110)
Jun 28 17:22:39 morg-m2ext-256gb kernel: usb 9-2: 1:0: usb_set_interface failed (-110)
Jun 28 17:22:44 morg-m2ext-256gb pipewire[5654]: spa.alsa: set_hw_params: Connection timed out
Jun 28 17:22:44 morg-m2ext-256gb pipewire[5654]: pw.node: (alsa_output.usb-Plugable_Technology_Plugable_TBT3-UDV_Dock_Audio-00.analog-stereo-53) suspended → error (Start error: Connection timed out)
Jun 28 17:22:44 morg-m2ext-256gb kernel: usb 9-2: 1:2: cannot set freq 48000 to ep 0x1
Yet another quote from Laptopparts4less that I would probably find funny if it wasn’t prolonging delays in my work:
Replacing the mainboard or the whole barebone laptop is the last course of action.
Avoid these guys at all cost.
UPDATE:
Apparently writing that I will quote the above line in reviews as well as in my message to EU consumer protection agencies, have done the trick: I received a shipment label. Will keep this thread updated as the matter progresses.
LOL. This phenomenon (resets in USB host controllers) seems quite common these days. Ryzen desktop systems (5000 series ?) used to receive lots of complaints from end users. Reportedly fixed with UEFI updates which seem to me just reduces the chance of resets but not fundamentally solved the problem.
I personally experienced it before. Initially I thought was a poor USB Hub. At the end, turns out the hub itself is fine but the bundled cables is not up to spec (perhaps with respect to Ryzen requirement ?). Changed to those with silk print on cables (i.e. with some sort of test & certification) fixed my issue permanently.
PCs in 2020s are pushing in uncharted waters. The demand for high standard in design, manufacturing, and adherence to industry specifications has never been greater than other times in the history of PCs.
BTW, as mentioned previously, when you get the new machine and if the issue persists, you may want to spend time installing Windows 11. Just to rule out the issue is not related to driver or Linux.
I thought these *4less companies’ reputations were well known. Their companies are all based out of Fullerton, California, and have the same M.O. Nothing is for less than anyone else (usually double the price minimum for used parts). You gotta read the fine print to tell that it’s not actually new. And they are frequent targets of complaints.
The other ones I know of which fits the same profile:
Legal:
After sending the laptop to Laptopparts4less, they refused to replace the mobo saying only “it works for us”, so I asked for a refund (law-guaranteed in EU without a reason up to 14 days, which I was still within, and up to 2 years in case of defects), but they refused and I was left without a laptop and without my money. Fortunately my bank & card issuer helped me to get my money back, but it took 2 months, hence my silence in this thread… (BTW, laptopparts4less is definitely from NL: you can check the company records and also my card statement confirmed this and the representatives I talked with had Dutch/Germanic names).
Technical:
I tried the same model from Tuxedo, initially it was exhibiting the same problems, HOWEVER after an update to kernel 6.16.1 (from 6.14.6) things have significantly improved:
USB4 devices (ASM2464PD(X) based, like Aoostar AG02, ADT-Link UT3G / 4G), TB4 and newer TB3 devices (JHL7440 and onward based like EXP-GDC TH3P4G3) work virtually flawless: it only happens very rarely that I need to unplug and plug them a second time if the first time they didn’t work (such faulty initial plugins do not produce ANY logs on the laptop and no status leds on the devices being connected indicate any connection attempt). After a connection is established (regardless if at a first or at a second attempt), it remains perfectly stable, including daisy-chaining.
older TB3 devices however (like the mentioned Plugable TB3 dock) still cause a lot of problems: I can connect it ONLY using the old TB3 Belkin cable as before, it may take several attempts, daisy chaining via it is totally unstable and a lot of kernel exceptions are being thrown into the logs from the thunderbolt module (as a reminder, it works perfectly fine on 3 other laptops using any of the cables that I have).
Since I was thinking about replacing this old TB3 dock anyway (it limits the speed of daisy-chained eGPUs significantly), I decided to accept this defect as it won’t affect me much and there are virtually no other laptop models currently available meeting all my requirements: HX370 CPU, 128GB RAM, 2.8k display <=14" (it’s possible to get up to any 2 out of these 3 things on Lenovo and Dell models, but never 3 at once on a single model) and either 2 M.2 slots (preferably) or at least 2 USB4 ports. The only other model I found is Framework 13" (with 2 USB4 ports), but it’s over 2 times more expensive (I can’t afford it at the moment) and has its own problems.
Thanks everyone for their input!
PS: in case anyone is interested in this model, here are the links to my eGPU builds on eGPU.io where there is some more general info:
(so otherwise all the machines should have exactly the same default setting of Debian Trixie).
Their companies are all based out of Fullerton, California, and have the same M.O. Nothing is for less than anyone else (usually double the price minimum for used parts). You gotta read the fine print to tell that it’s not actually new. And they are frequent targets of complaints.
MacBook Pro ⟺ Optical USB4 cable ⟺ Thunderbolt 4 hub ⟺ USB4 enclosure
X670E motherboard ⟺ Optical USB4 cable ⟺ Thunderbolt 4 hub ⟺ USB4 enclosure