Oldfart’s getting even older, problems were none existed before.
All of a sudden those constant wrist movements are problematic -you softie-, plus methinks the ole arm just isn’t what it used to be, it kinda drags itself across the mousepad -i think it’s dying on me, need a refund-, plenty of friction, i wear mousepads out like panties.
If i wore panties that is. You perverts…
So am thinking maybe i should try a trackball?
Glorious research hours that only a pensioner could afford later, am down to this one here:
Looks about my age, lol, but it ticks all the buttons; minus the one, scrolling. Don’t know what they were thinking, but where it’s placed, mouse may as well not have a scroll button at all.
Bringing us finally on topic! Sorry
i) Need ideas, autohotkeys something, have a script resulting in mouse wheel down or up. Maybe [Ctrl]+[left click] for [wheelUp], [Ctrl]+[right click] for [wheelDown]. Or maybe something smarter, not my forte all this.
ii) Would you even bother in my shoes? I don’t do CAD, drawing, or the like; and i highlight pieces of text so so often, be it to paste or edit. Not sure how much use a trackball would be on that one… also, am not in the US, so ordering this from down here, i’d be looking at about 300euro with shipping and customs in.
I have an old Logitech Trackman Wheel, still going strong despite me not looking after it very well The closest currently available model looks like the Logitech M575 ERGO, be it it has more modern ways of connecting the device to one’s PC. It’s available from Alternate at around 50€. Logitech also have a Business version of this, at slightly more cost but double the DPI resolution.
Having said that, you may want to investigate further on the Alternate websites for a better suited device: for the Benelux, use the Dutch site (alternate.nl), everywhere else in EU-land, try the German site (alternate.de). Also, look around at local retailers, I found the above Logitech products (marginally) cheaper at a local supplier. (https://www.informatique.nl)
I’ve got one of those, you’re right about the buttons. A lot of trackballs suffer from that affliction. As far as button placement, the ploopy is top of the list IMO.
I’ve tried on and off for years, never could get completely comfortable with a trackball. I had really good luck with a trackpad, though. Magic trackpad 2 can even support windows precision driver with a little GitHub magic.
I think a trackpoint (ala ThinkPads) is the more superior pointing method when considering mouse alternatives. At least your hands no longer needs to get out of the keyboard.
The potential problem is I dont know if it will actually help you with your arthritis/RSI.
Other alternatives exist, even with mechanical keyboards:
The ultimate hacking keyboard 60 v2 has a small trackball/trackpoint/trackpad addon but the downside is it is expensive AF. Not even TKL… I need at least a TKL for that price. At least you have options.
I very much recommend a trackball over a mouse. I think the fact mice are more popular is primarily just which technology happened to get popularised rather than it being better. In fact I consider them worse.
I personally prefer ones where the trackball is operated by the thumb as I find that quicker to use and perhaps more precise. I have one of these:
That said, I don’t know how that would mesh with your particular joint condition. If the elbow is stiff maybe your thumb is too. So whichever suits you but I’m just throwing that out there. One thing nice with this particular model and a feature you might want to look for is the pair of buttons on this that adjust the speed of the cursor. That’s a very nice to have depending on what I’m working on, able to flick between slow and precise or zoom around the screen mode. And because the trackball is off-centre, there’s a very easy placement of scroll wheel and also forward-back buttons for browser or any other application that is keyed to use them.
In any case, I don’t really need any extra shortcuts to work with it than I would with a mouse. However, I would venture a suggestion that, if you’re on Windows, you write out the window management shortcuts and stick them to the side of the monitor and make yourself use them for a while until they become muscle memory. We all do Alt+Tab without thinking, but you can also learn to do things like Ctrl+Tab to cycle through browser tabs without thinking, Win+Arrow keys to snap windows to the side or top or bottom becoming natural as well. Really much of our Window positioning can be met by these shortcuts. Once they become second nature there’ll be a lot less wear and tear on your mousepad.
So that’s actually my recommendation. Trackball - yes. Thumb one if that would work for you but nothing wrong with a traditional one if that’s your preference. Look for one with speed adjustment buttons if available. Someone suggested a clit-mouse like the Thinkpads and they are actually great but I’ve never seen one other than on an actual Thinkpad. And very definitely the piece of paper with Windows shortcuts on it stuck to the monitor. (Apologies if you’re on a Mac. )
@Dutch_Master when i was still young (images of dinosaurs roaming the earth), Logitech was Logitech. Today… their quality is so, but so subpar i tend to steer away from them, though yes, i’ve checked the ERGO out; including the cheaper version.
Even if we excluded -i cannot- the buttans and leds all over, it’s a thumb tracker. I can’t do those, thumb will eventually get sore, for sure.
(had a multi-button programmable Steelseries mouse, so i know this from experience)
@Hondo appreciate the input man, but as above, thumb variant wouldn’t do for this oldfart.
Extra buttans are a deterrent honestly, if ever they get pressed it’s accidentally, not by design.
@regulareel man if it means my wrist no longer hurting, i’ll pay, lol!
Will definitely check that Thinkpad out. Last one is a no-go, too modern for me ^^
@wizarddata checking that one now, thank you so much man. All these hours and i had not even come across that one. Much obliged.
If you’d be kind enough to get back to me on this one, i see what looks like a 3D-printed shell, is that so? Kinda worried about longevity.
One i link is tank-level sturdy (US-made thick, thicc ABS) and has steel bearings, so it will last me some.
Versus what does indeed look like excellent buttan placement on the Ploopy, price about the same all in all. Hmm…
Edit: yeah, it’s 3D-printed… bah. They’ve gone places the last few years, but no way this competes with good ABS moulding. Dammit.
Edit 2: Even the roller bearings are 3D-printed, lol. Nuh, no way. But again, sincere thanks for the input Wiz; much obliged
"buttan- on purpose, i can still type right if i have to -
It is best experienced in-person, like in a MicroCenter before you should buy. Also try to move it around see if it alleviates pain.
Also consider ergo keyboards as well for wrist pain relief:
The least adjustments would be alice layouts:
There is a TKL version of this (with Funcrion keys but no numpad).
The crazier keyboard that will take some time to adjust would be the split ones like the MoErgo:
Theoretically, these should be the best for relieving wrist pain during typing, but transfering to normal keyboards would make you constantly readjust your typing muscle memory.
Very modern, lol, i don’t think i have it in me for those; old dog, new tricks? ^^
Do appreciate the help though.
My first job in the US, they had us those Microsoft curvy keyboards, ubiquitous at the time; am guessing someone was handing out some real fat commissions… Even back then, i couldn’t cope with the damned thing.
Swearing in a non-native language while struggling with a keyboard isn’t particularly conducive to, well, a good number of things.
I blamed the coffee… jeebus but that wasn’t coffee.
Sure made you angry drinking that sludge though, lol, maybe they knew what they were doing after all.
Anyway, on topic, even though i doubt this alone will solve everything, am starting with that Tex Shinobi keyboard, was sold the moment i saw the image. We’ll see how it goes from there i guess. Thanks again for that link man
Not a mechanic, but i did electronics for moving and rotating components. Corp or two you may have heard about
You don’t do plastic bearings, sorry. Not unless that is you have, a priori, consented to your eventually replacing the device altogether.
For near 300 total my tally (international shipping + customs + VAT), no sirree. The x-keys one has steel and ABS moulding. For a mere Hamilton more; no contest i’d think, but… agree to disagree and all, yeah? ^^
Trackballs were nice in tight spaces but were very prone to gunk buildup from micro dust and the oil from your fingers.
While cleaning them wasn’t that hard it was a pain when you were busy with multiple projects.
Track pads were ok but tended to be a little flaky with sensitivity.
You could get them in different interface
Its possible to get them in usb but i havent used an external trachpad for the past 20 years.
Touch screen was nice but often were fragile and sometimes required frequent calibration.
Each input has its plus and minuses but at least we have a choice.
If you can find a trackball. Them by all means go for it.
I’m team Magic Trackpad 2. Easy to use, very good gestures and haptic feedback, and it’s huge. Battery will last a month easily, and if that’s too little for you you can just leave it plugged in and it will still work fine. My preferred layout for desktop actually has become keyboard above trackpad, basically like on a laptop. For typing it’s perfect, I can switch between moving the cursor and typing instantly. My first computers were laptops, so trackpads are what feels most natural to me. I do have a mouse (MX Master 2) because some things just don’t work for trackpad users (like dragging with the scroll button, which is common in CAD), but for the most part the Magic Trackpad 2 is flawless. And relevant in this case, I think, because it can be operated with just a finger.
Printed objects are highly porous and will absorb oils from your skin which even a thorough cleaning won’t be able to get rid of. A 3D-printed trackball would quickly get absolutely disgusting.
While I would never call trackpoints superior (to anything but touchpads) you have a point… I switched to mini-keyboards (without num-pads) and the much shorter reach for the mouse (or thumb trackball) is a major advantage.
I wish we could still get laptops with trackballs… touchpads are awful.
You might be surprised… With a mouse or a finger trackball, you have to drag the pointer all the way across the screen every time. With a thumb trackball, one quick flick sends the mouse all the way from one side of the screen to the other. And the whole rest of your arm is wresting comfortably stationary the whole time.
@wizarddata they don’t mention it in the mouse store page, but if you have a look at their replacement kit, you’ll see it mentioned there alright; 3D-printed roller bearings
@Susanna appreciate the input! The trackpad is Apple only. I don’t do Apple!
I also despise Gnome, lol ^^
(making friends everywhere i go, i know…)
As for acceleration, while an option, to be honest ever since i got me proper mice/kbs, i’m this much happier having it off. Much, much better.
(plus, it won’t interfere with certain mice hard/software, always a possibility)
It’s at best a fallback i find.
@rcxb don’t dispute either, i just know from experience that the best i can hope for regarding my thumb is maaaybe, maybe the scroll-wheeling, if/where applicable of course. Using it constantly and in such manner is absolutely not feasible.
I use the PC a lot am sad to say.
You’re correct that the dowels are 3d printed, but those just locate the bearings. MR63ZZ is the part number for the bearings they use
I’ve been using a 3d printed keyboard (including palm rests) for the last couple years without much issue in that regard, but with 3d printed parts it can depend on how the part is printed because of the layer lines. And it’ll vary a ton from person to person. The texture of the ploopy is definitely not what I could call smooth, too, because of the orientation they print the shell in. Not explicitly unpleasant, but different for sure.
All this talk about trackballs has got me rotating through my collection again
I’m using it in KDE and it works just fine, including gestures. You can use it in windows with the Microsoft Precision drivers fairly easily. MacOS has the best gestures support, but the trackpads aren’t restricted to it.
I didn’t know that, thank you so much…
Will Google the relevants, as tbh i’m not even sure what ‘precision drivers’ signify in this instance.
(am stuck to WinXP era; upon installation of Win7, or 10 by now, a good number of days is spent cutting and tearing, until i’m as barebones as can be. Which is a bad habit to have, as i tend to remove anything “new”/i don’t know about)
Again, much obliged. Who knows, maybe for the first time in my life i’ll give my money to Apple!
Always the same sad story: Young foolish kids ignoring the warnings from parents and teachers, engaging in reckless thumb-wresting… sustaining life-changing traumatic thumb injuries that follow them for the rest of their lives.
The closest currently available model looks like the Logitech M575 ERGO, be it it has more modern ways of connecting the device to one’s PC. It’s available from Alternate at around 50€. Logitech also have a Business version of this, at slightly more cost but double the DPI resolution.
)
