@wendell What's running on your screens? I see a bunch of scrolling text, and I wonder what your machine is doing.
The reason it saddens me is because I feel that videos that are made specifically to address any sort of "hate". That kind of negativity coming from a channel that I really like makes me sad.
I dunno why they are specifically shiting on /g/. If they are going to talk about the Linux community sucking, they need to talk about more than just 4chan.
Heh, debating has never been about wining, it's about making sure the other person looses.
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K...but can we all agree that Black and Decker tools suck ass?
As fragmented Linux is your going to get people who say my wrench is better than your wrench. Different programs doing the same thing but one may be better than the other isn't a completely invalid point, but nobody should be a dick about it. When it comes to WM's everyone has there favorite and all the others are worse.
Lmao I can't believe Logan actually fell for the jokes concerning gentoo and such. They are nothing more than long running jokes that one gets past 3 days after seeing them for the first time. For example seeing someone "condemn" someone else for not using Backtrack Linux like a cool leet hacker doesn't mean he's being an asshole. 98% of the time it's just sarcasm or satire.
/g/ isn't inherently hostile towards non-linux users, it's barely inherently hostile towards non-4chan users. There are just some things you don't take seriously on 4chan such as ironic greentext. You could use a mac and post about it on /g/ and if you are a 4chan user of any board, you can expect some ironic comments about macs, but at the end of the day once people have had their laugh, you've had a good discussion.
/g/ isn't a good-natured community designed to make people feel good. If you ask for a discussion you will probably find it but don't expect to be coddled because that's not the purpose of it. Neither is it a cesspool of garbage and hatred like so many want to believe. No one actually hates your guts for using Gnome instead of Openbox. No one actually thinks you are lower than trash for using Ubuntu. People just like to have fun even at others' expenses because nowhere else on the internet will let them without attaching their posts to an identity, but that doesn't mean they genuinely have any ill will towards you.
There are plenty of friendly communities out there, so I don't get why I see logan on occasion (but consistently) judge /g/ when he isn't even part of the community and doesn't know both sides of the story. It's extremely short-sighted of him to do so. It makes him no better than some of the people on /g/ that might criticize Tek Syndicate and Logan for things they do not understand, and vice versa.
Edit: I don't even use Linux as a main OS myself. When I do use it I use Ubuntu 12.04, and I frequent /g/. Seriously, no one said /g/ is a super friendly community, but I rarely if ever feel any true hostility when I talk about anything Windows or Ubuntu related. You just have got to stop taking things so seriously. If you want watercooler-esque discussions about all things tech with a bit of roughness around the edges, go to /g/. If you want structured, friendly forum discussion with moderation and a status quo of politeness, go somewhere else.
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@rinslime Well, no, it's not really about that. We joked about that.. maybe it got cut, but this is the type of damage we're talking about with that type of toxicity:
Not everything is /g/s fault but when we say /g/ type toxicity, you know what we mean. It's worse than the normal youtube swill because it is targeted (vs the unwashed masses)
Linux help guy is a perfectly reasonable person working with linux, and our point was 'that type of toxicity' is bad, and it's a shame to see those guys frustrated. And we, as a group, can do better.
All it takes for trolls to triumph is for good folks to do nothing.
To lose: to be defeated.
Losing: in the process of being defeated.
Too loose: a hawaiian 5XL t-shirt being worn by a chihuahua.
Too loosing: Not a phrase.
looses: I don't even.
You mean like this?
In the video I posted, he did not say that.
Linus gets it. He's got a saying 'Don't break userspace' -- they've bent over backwards to prevent userspace from breaking, even when it ends badly.
If you've got the energy and time to troll, you've got the energy and time to actually make the world a better place.
To butcher a greek proverb:
A community grows great when individuals plant trees whose shade they know they shall never enjoy.
Yes, because in the end. I'm not the grammar nazi.
That's a fair goal and all, but sometimes good folks and trolls are the same person. Someone can say he doesn't like your distro and he thinks you shouldn't use it, but then continue by telling you the pros and cons of his own and why he thinks it would be better for you. In that process you can learn something new.
To say that places like /g/ are bad or toxic is overly judgmental. It does not put itself on a pedestal as the place to go for tech. There are plenty of places on the internet much more suited for most people. To judge /g/ (and places like it) for its 'toxicity' is to be unfair and metaphorically similar to someone going in the middle of a group of people and telling them they should change their ways. No one wants anyone else to come to /g/ if it makes them uncomfortable. It's a unique place with a unique culture. The so-called 'toxicity' of it is a niche (albeit a grossly exaggerated one) of that culture that is quickly overcome, and to condemn places of its kind is hubris because it is to say that such places shouldn't exist in the privacy of their own domain, because someone else who doesn't understand it finds it unpleasant.
I don't think anyone argues that elitism in the Linux community is bad, but making that negativity so black and white is also bad. I think Logan jumped the gun on this video before thinking things through or taking the time to understand just what he is arguing against.
The proceding is a work of fiction. Any resemblance between the opinions expressed within, and the opinions of the author are p̶u̶r̶e̶l̶y̶ mostly coincidental.
I hate you because you are happy with Ubuntu. Linux is not just a tool. It's an identity, a way of life. You came into our tribe, ignored our sacred rituals of compilation and configuration, and declared yourself one of us. A pleb like you calling yourself a Linux User detracts from what it means to be a Linux User. You must either meet our standards or be forced out. I will treat you with hostility, because it's part of the experience; I don't want a community full of cowards that give up in the face of criticism.
I despise you because you choose the easy way, because you don't know the struggle and satisfaction of doing things yourself. You don't know the divine joy of being able to move a window as fast as you could blink, or collect thousands of files with four words. I despise you because you refuse to rise to your potential.
I am jealous of you, because you never had to build your own tools. I took the hard route. I had to spend the long nights struggling to get things working, contributing to projects that sometimes became what you're using today, and sometimes were tossed aside in favor of someone else's project.
I hate you because you trivialize what I love.
Because if you try to change something without fully understanding it, you'll be inneffectual at best, and destructive at worst, and because every position has its degree of truth.
The point I was making is that winning a debate - even, or perhaps especially - because of tiny grammatical errors, or just straight up trolling other people or belittling their point isn't a good way of having a debate. Glad I had some help making it. ;)
Hey yeah @wendell @Logan. Thank you for this video... Yeah I use every major distro.. I like them all and I recommend a distro based on what someone asks for and I still give them options and choice... Thank you for making a video to stop the ubuntu ragers and all the other ones.. I personally stick to opensuse but when I say that I say why and I dont pressure people so once again thank you :D
You are making this far more about /g/ than we were, imho. In the context of what we're talking about, that toxicity has already spread. To youtube, and other communities. Your argument seems to be that because it is the 'privacy' of their own domain, it's okay.
I agree with that in so far that I don't go there to force my opinion on that community. That just seems silly. I certainly hope no one would go bother them because of us. My argument is that if you participate in a community (any community) and you have nothing constructive to say, you shouldn't say anything at all. Perhaps even you should deal with trolls constructively, and in a perfect world perhaps work toward elevating the community itself. Were that to happen, the toxicity would go away and it would not fester or spread.
You liken a troll to someone who gives you constructive feedback. I don't think this is what a troll actually is.
Back when I would sit around the Ubuntu and puppy linux irc helping people out I ironically spent a lot of time explaining how to do stuff... from the forum they where looking at. That or get a bunch of people that wanted me to magically make it work. Also kept getting a bunch of people from Mint and Debian in the irc asking for help when they couldn't find a fix in those chanels. Puppy support was a pain in the butt. One irc channel and helping people get stuff working across every release and fork of it. Nothing like having to talk some one through getting something from one repo and installing all the dependencies. Then install something from the other repo, then have them uninstall the first one because they only needed the one dependency from it and since the new program uses it it won't get uninstalled. Or the fun of getting some one too download devx and walking them through compiling the program. Got to the point that after giving up a ton of my time helping people and having too many fix this for me and them not cooperate in me trying to help them and telling me to fuck off or calling me a faggot and I decided I would only help people that I know or a friend knows that is going to put in the effort.
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@sycpuppy - this kind of thing is one of the things I worry about. There isn't a 'closed loop' of QA here back to the developers. Because it's crazy for us to fix these issues one-at-a-time instead. We should fix it once, forever, in the distro. That means the maintainers/developers need insight into all the crap people are having to deal with, which doesnt always happen with open source the way it does with a dedicated team. I don't have a good solution :-\ short of maintaining my own scripts for doing things. On debian.
Listening to Nixie Pixel's Sexy voice Makes Learning Linux all worth while for me.
Ty Tek Syndicate for showing me Ubuntu Gnome.... i now run it on everything and i have even setup a dual boot win 8.1/Gnome configuration on my Vaio Flip/work laptop.
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Maybe the solution is helping those people and then letting the dev team know by informing them what you just helped somebody out with and how they should improve something.. Just a thought.. I mean it is a community and we all should have some responsibility to let the devs know what is working and what is not.
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