Suggestions for AM4 Upgrade

Hi,

I was quite early with AMD back when Ryzen as available and the parts serve me well. However I am suffering from a hardware bug (?) where my linux OS (Fedora) hangs randomly. If I got the details right there is some kind of bug in the power mgmt side of things (? @wendell mentioned something in one of his videos as a sidenote) and now I am at the point of no longer tolerating this issue.

Hence, looking for an upgrade on my existing platform. €s only

Current Specs:

Typical workload:

  • Coding
  • CAD
  • Encoding
  • Data analysis
  • If gaming, 1080p

Scope:

  • Around 300 € for the CPU would be okay (if 320, so be it …)
  • GPU question more out of curiosity, it still works
  • Keep the rest of the hardware and OS (also distro)

What would you pick for a CPU and maybe GPU. I am considering changing to AMD there as well as the Nvidia exp. under Linux is not good for me. (But I still need the machine learning capabilities)

Thx

Edit 11th August:

  • Added motherboard specs and remarks about scope
  • Added budget notes
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Which motherboard exactly and which cpus are supported by the latest bios?

What is your budget?

The best cpu on AM4 for your purposes is the 5950x, but I’m not sure if your board supports it.

Budget permitting go for a 7900 on AM5.

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Right now, the best GPU for machine learning is Nividia graphic cards. What issues are you having with Nividia graphic cards on Linux (Fedora)? @Greedence, you didn’t mention the maximum amount you wanted to spend for your new system.
Please specify English Pounds or European Union money. You might want to consider Arch instead of Fedora for your new build.

  1. Are wanting to stick to the AM4 socket? Or do you want to upgrade to an AM5 system?
  2. What are you wanting to spend?
  3. Do you want to keep your current motherboard?

From the thread title and current parts 5700X or 5700X3D/5800X3D seem like the defaults. If the data analysis workloads will use the cores, then 5900X or 5950X may make sense.

A couple GPU starting points would be ASRock Steel Legend 7700 XT or PNY 4060 [Ti] XLR8. ASRock Phantom Gaming 7800, Phantom Gaming/Taichi 7900 or higher spec XLR8 if you want to scale up.

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5950X, 5900X, 5800X is all pretty low in price and you can reuse your ram kit. If you want 3D cache, then 5700X3D.
B550. MSI B550 Gaming Gen 3 is well priced atm.
I agree with the others that Nvidia is the way to go if you want to do AI stuff. If you got issues in Fedora, maybe try Ubuntu. With AMD rocm, you’ll have a good time testing different stuff. I tried Fedora 40 on 7900XT the other day and it was pretty interesting. I’m back on Ubuntu 24.04 now.
If you’re up to the task, then 7900 GRE might be a good buy. I like the Asus Dual version, because of the compact design and pretty decent cooler.

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Hmm, that it certainly is. Not sure if the OP’s interested in changing mobos but FWIW, having built both MSI and ASRock AM4, I’d spend slightly more for B550 PG Riptide as a budget option. The extra US$ 10 gives a second M.2 and 2.5 GbE. Plus I’ve found ASRock boards quieter with a more flexible BIOS that’s also more reliable in certain aspects. If less cost constrained, B550 or X570 PG Velocita.

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Oh, forgot that it only has one M.2. I would recommend a B550 Elite V2 then, its about the same price as the Asrock and is very stable. Has the same features as PG riptide but in addition also got USB bios flashback and better VRM. Should also have faster boot times. Can’t find the video proving that, but was one of the reasons I didn’t chose the PG riptide and went with Elite V2.

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How’s hands on with Aorus Elite V2? Haven’t built Gigabyte in a while but there was the completely unsecured backdoor and I’ve seen a lot of complaints about BIOS updates bricking boards.

Probably of no particular importance but, FWIW, the pricing I can get on the B550 Elite V2 and Velocita is almost identical.

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If your board supports a bump to Ryzen 5000 support, go straight to 5950X/5900XT.

There’s currently like $5 between the 5950X and the 5900XT, and about $5 worth of performance favoring the 5950X. The 3900X/5900X are also quite solid options, though they actually fly slightly closer to the sun on temperatures than the 16-core variants (same PPT + fewer cores = hotter cores) which is slightly counterintuitive. Cool $100 to keep in your pocket, but the disadvantages will persist until you spend money again, so…

Is it the app center download inside BIOS on some models? https://www.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/13xe2m9/firmware_backdoor_discovered_in_gigabyte/
Reminds me of Asus Armoury crate. At least Elite V2 doesn’t have that… oh it does, but not rev. 1.1 that I have. I was also very certain I never saw that feature and If I had, I would disable immediately. Why did Gigabyte do this. Just because Asus made the stupid choice to include this doesn’t mean its a good idea… Heres the list of affected boards: https://eclypsium.com/wp-content/uploads/Gigabyte-Affected-Models.pdf

And Velocity is the same price, then it’s good and doesn’t have the god awful auto installer then its a plus. It’s so annoying having to disable that every time you update or reset BIOS. Was the main reason why I didn’t get a Asus board…

Presumably it wasn’t because they wanted to deflect the five digit annual hardware spend I manage to ASRock and MSI. But that’s required by the security policies at work. I’d expect most sane organizations to be similar, as well as to be Armoury Crate avoidant due to all of the attack surface it’ll push, its need for a special cleaning uninstaller which (last I checked) still doesn’t actually uninstall everything, and Asus making some core motherboard configuration settings Armoury Crate only instead of putting them in the BIOS. ASRock and MSI have crappy software and CVEs too but my hope is they’ll maintain BIOS only pathways and stay out of the autoinstallers.

Another nice thing about the AM4 Velocitas is the debug displays weren’t cost reduced out. The lack of AM5 Velocita means B650E Taichi Lite or X670E Taichi to get debug.

assuming the tomahawk, it first came out in q1 2017. its quite a old board now adays and would be the highest priority thing to replace imo. especially since gen 1 ryzen and ryzen boards had so much trouble with ram and you have 64 gigs.

anywho budget? location? ect

I don’t know about Intel GPUs in that space, presumably they are better than AMD, but if you consider red GPU keep in mind that rocm only officially supports the workstations cards and 7900 (XT, XTX and GRE). Some others (RDNA 2,3) might work, but may also randomly break. Some older cards (pre-RDNA) might work, but their support is unofficial and might be deprecated. RDNA 1 will not work, period.

Here’s the officially supported list:

Cards that share architecture are likely to work without official support and with some manual labor.

Hi,

thx for the replies. I updated my question with more details.
Background to the GPU stuff:

  • There is right now an issue with the prop. nvidia driver and wayland were window overlay (in this case, the content of a window) is not rendered properly. Not shown, or flickers … etc. Please no discussion about Wayland, yes/no in this thread.
  • I am keeping Fedora since my time is currently rather limited and I can’t migrate all my workflows to a different distro

Mostly I lost track on which AM4 CPU is good for what; too many releases, even most recent ones. Hence, my question …

I built a system for my better half with AM4 and a Ryzen 5 2400G APU back when they first came out.

It was nothing but trouble. Frequent freezes. At first I thought it was just a matter of waiting for a newer Linux kernel, but that never fixed anyhting.

I never quite figured out if I was suffering from the power management bug (I also vaguely remember hearing about it back then) or if it was just a matter of RAM and how picky Zen1 was about it.

What you pick for AM4 is going to depend on a combination of what your motherboard supports, and what you want to do with it.

If you play games, the choice is easy (if your motherboard supports it). Ryzen 7 5800X3D is the best choice hands down.

I have thus far upgraded two separate earlier AM4 systems to 5800X3D. Both of them worked perfectly, but flashing the BIOS was tricky on one of them.

The first was a MSI B350 Tomahawk that had been running a Ryzen 5 1600x from the start back in 2016. This one was easy, but required flashing the latest beta bios. They call it beta, but I don’t know why. I have found it to be rock solid. Maybe they just didn’t run the normal suite of tests on it to validate it.

Process was easy. Just flash the appropriate BIOS (motherboards support site listed which BIOS to flash for which CPU) then - when done - shut down, remove old CPU install new CPU and then power up again.

This system didn’t get Gen3 PCIe due to th eolder chipset, but that was fine.

The other was a little trickier. This was my better halfs 2400G system. I it was an Asrock X470 mini-ITX motherboard. It required me to remove the 2400G CPU, install the 1600x CPU (from the system above, luckily I had it) then flash it to the latest BIOS. Shut it down, and replace the 1600x CPU with the 5800x CPU.

Once done it works perfectly though.

What I would do is look up the support pages for your Motherboard and see if you can figure out which CPU’s are supported.

Then I would select from the following:

  • $339 - Ryzen 7 5800X3D - 8C16T, best for games, very slightly slower for other things.
  • $174 - Ryzen 7 5800X - 8C16T, like the above, but worse at games, but clocked slighly higher. This is the best budget choice.
  • $262 - Ryzen 9 5900x - 12C24T. More cores = better for rendering/encoding
  • $358 - Ryzen 9 5950x - 16C24T. Even more codes = Even better for rendering/encoding.

(Prices are current Amazon pricing in my area)

You mention 1080p as if that means you need a lesser CPU, but usually it is the other way around. The lower the resolution, the more the bottleneck shifts to the CPU, so the CPU becomes even more important.

You also mention encoding, in which case higher core count might be useful.

You may also consider upgrading your RAM while you are at it. RAM compatibility is much better with newer Ryzen chips than back on your 1700x. I would go for a set of DDR4-3600 with decent timings, as that appears to be more or less the sweet spot, and will make a difference, especially on the higher core variants when all the cores want to hit the RAM at the same time.

Luckily, as long as you don’t need too much of it, DDR4 is pretty cheap these days. I used this RAM in both the systems I upgraded to 5800X3D’s and it works perfectly:

If you are going to buy a motherboard, forget AM4. AM4 is a a dead socket with no future. If you are going to buy a motherboard today (or at any time after late September 2022, it should be AM5. That’s the only reasonable thing to do.

It does make sense to upgrade an existing AM4 system as far as it will go to get more performance while being budget friendly, but if you are going to replace the motherboard anyway, don’t get anything older than the latest socket. You’ll regret it later.

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$300 for CPU upgrade?

That budget can juuust about squeeze in a $140 MSI B550 Tomahawk MAX and a $160 Ryzen 5700X, and would double your perf already.

If you want more though the $350 Ryzen 9 5900XT draws less power but is otherwise identical to the 5950X, cores and everything.

With the motherboard that is a total of $500, I would rather run B550+5700X over B350+5900XT so $300 or $500 upgrade IMO. My 2 cents.

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Strongly disagree, it all depends on your goals and current resources.

From where OP stands, $300 to double CPU perf and add PCIe 4.0 capability means the computer can last until 2028 or so. Quadruple CPU for $500.

Compared to AM5 it is still more expensive, $300 is not enough for new MB + 64 GB RAM + 8c CPU (you need at least $600 for that).

It is true AM5 is going to last until at least 2030 as a viable rig though, but we are almost in 2025 and AM4 sales are still going strong.

Not sure I’d quite go to strongly disagree but +1 here. AM4’s a really good value option, which I assume is why AMD’s been staying with it.

  • If compute isn’t being pushed reasonably hard dual channel DDR4 probably isn’t a meaningful restriction to a single CCD. Sure, it benches lower but real world difference across the OP’s workloads is limited unless data or project size is fairly substantial.
  • AM5’s PCIe 5.0 aspects are well into diminishing returns for most workloads. I don’t see that changing a whole lot in the next few years. A lot of code still struggles to fully utilize current gen 3.5s, much less 3.0 x2, and 4.0 x16 can saturate dual channel DDR5.
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Here is a simple answer.

Get the 5700X3D, should suit you well, if you have more money you can maybe find the 5800X3D better.

You should also upgrade your motherboard to X570 as they provide more future proof features like more USB (and lanes), maybe onboard Wi-Fi, proper XMP/EXPO support.

The GPU can do you another 3 years atleast. But you can upgrade to 5700XT, 6700XT, 7600XT(like me) or something in the future.