"Music Players" Flame War Edition

I’m hoping someone has a recommendation for an audio player, something I’ve somehow missed. Perhaps something up an coming that’s not got a lot of hype yet to make it easy to find. However this is going to be tricky so bare with me.

I have spent years searching for, building, installing, testing something that stands up to foobar2000. As soon as I mention foobar2000 someone inevitably pipes up with deaDBeef/Quod Libet…No. Foobar2000 under wine is also not an option. I’ve been trying to get it to run since the early 2000’s. It’s never stable and not even close to anything I’d trust my cranked up speakers with. If you’re lucky it crashes leaving you in silence…otherwise you get the nasty 3ms buffer screech.

Recently retried Tauon and it should be almost everything I want but man virtually every surface has a glaring bug or breakage. I used Audacious for years but some idiotic input behavior in the media library had me fed up. (Pressing enter in search wipes your current playlist with no undo and replaces it with whatever the current query is. No user config for keybinds to change or disable this stupidity.) QmmP was / is kinda the main stay but like Audacious it ticks most the boxes but lacks the database stuff for plays/favoriting and playlist queries. Both Audacius and QmmP also suck for game files. At present I use deaDBeef exclusively for game file playing. It’s way to crashy though. “We had a crash. Will not resume the saved session to avoid a crash cycle.” -DeaDBeef in a nutshell. MusikCube used to be posed to be the player but then he scraped most of it and now it’s a console player and still suffers in a lot of areas like tags & file types. There was a lot of hype about VLC 4 so I gave the nightly git a build…excuse me sir, your dumpster is on fire…

You may notice when you get to the feature list below, nowhere will you see Steaming (cough Streaming) crap, album art or any other of what seems to be every Flipping players focus these days. Who the F___ needs album art. Are you just staring at your player the whole time? Go watch MTV you nutter. The days of coming home and opening up the album art while you listen are long gone, play the damned song and leave me alone! (shakes cane) I’m sure there is some feature I’m forgetting or behavior that is make or break but like I said, tricky.

Now this is off the top of my head but I will try to list what I’ve already been through.

  • deaDBeef (It lacks what I want but it works…so long as you don’t breath or make any sudden movements. Then it crashes…it always crashes…)
  • MusikCube (Issues with filetypes and tags. I’m not really fond of cli players.)
  • Quod Libet (A UI vomit fest that somehow has lots of what I want but negates it all with the fact it won’t play anything!)
  • Babe / Vvave
  • Dopamine (Nothing better than basic old players, unintuitive UI, doesn’t seem to find music/metadata)
  • Audacious (Basic, works, some horrific UI and playlist issues.)
  • Rhythmbox (Old, GTK, clunky and somehow sidesteps everything I want while trying to do everything I don’t.)
  • Strawberry / Clemintine / Amarok / Exaile / Banshee (A thousand ports of the same bloated slow pile of UI crap.)
  • Songbird / Tomahawk (These sucked even when they were cool.)
  • XMMP / QmmP (X, old, discontinued) (Q new, works OK, lacks some key features I pine for like the DB/Rating stuff.)
  • JuK (Bah more KDE kitchen sink that forces everything you don’t want to get a few things you do while making the whole experience feel uncomfortable…)
  • CMus (Bah, I mean I like it for a cli player but just feels clunk and still misses the marks.)
  • Sayonara (The 1990’s called and said you’re feature incomplete.)
  • Harmonoid (Slick “nothingness”)
  • Tauon (Baby you’d be a perfect 10 if it wasn’t for that crack/meth habit.)
  • Museeks (I just retested this, don’t remember a thing about it other than lacking…)
  • MPD (Convoluted, needs addon deamons and just too many issues with clients. Yes sir, we need 50 Servers to 1 Client…that’s the golden, I mean brown ratio Sir.)
  • VLC 4 (Sir, your dumpster is on fire…I mean you are trying to copy Windows 11 poorly…I mean FIRE!)

I will also say some of the listed could be considered not fairly tested. Some just never work/launch, never build. Others are close but not -all there-. Some are just what I’m after but broken as a politicians morals. Some promise the sun, moon and stars then deliver brain damaged Fabio.

So some of the key things I am looking for:

  • Customizable UI like old Firefox UI where you can move anything anywhere and hide what you want hidden [read: No jumbo buttons, wasted space]

  • Playlist functions:
    – Basic crap like remove duplicates / import / export
    – Advanced crap like db query style creation stuff. Play all tracks with a rating over 4, play favorite tracks, play newest etc.

  • Library Search

  • Auto “find/add” new files when they are added to the library folder

  • Tag Editing: Ability to open a selected track(s) with an external or internal tag editor.

  • UI for favorite/plays/codec

  • Repeat Functions:
    – Seamless/Gapless repeat/loop

  • Global Hotkey stuff / Cli args for play-pause/next/previous

Bonus | Wiggle Room Features:

  • Game Console Music support (nsf|hes|vgm|vgz)

  • QT Based (not GTK3+ based or KDE dependant)

  • Not based on flaky “attack vector” paradise stacks (electron,npm/node.js)

*Comic relief
Again I’ve been doing this a long time. I wrote this and thought hell it’s been at least a few years since I tried Quod Libet, maybe I should revisit it, maybe it’s better? Installed…go to play a song…“Bla bla I don’t have the backend to play this format.” Meanwhile under the supported file types, said file type is listed. Crap UI, never works no matter how many GStreamer backends I install… Oh sorry this file is a special snow flake I need GStreamer-thebadthegoodtheugly-andtheirmothers.v232728378457283782748737232 Oh that’s not in any repo…that’s because you have to climb Everest, spin counter clockwise three times and fart on a near by Yak to get that version…Oh and once installed I still won’t play the song.

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I look forward to what you find! I was just happy to find dopamine audio player for my desktop GitHub - digimezzo/dopamine: The audio player that keeps it simple

and pulsar for my android phone. My requirement were simple to use and not itunes!

I looked at dopamine but the node.js / electron bits put me off. Also peeked at Rune and then there are a flood of “simple” players I didn’t list/try.

Just figured I’d try in a VM, has ratings/love, no play counts, no query based playlists. Really unintuitive UI for me. I guess I need to add this to the list now heh.

If it exists, I have yet to find it too, but then again even Foobar2000 wasn’t perfect for me.

I did end up settling on DeaDBeeF at some point even though I was really missing a proper Library view, and I can’t seem to find a plugin for it that does it either.

That being said, I rarely use it anymore either since i migrated all my music into Jellyfin and use Feishin as a music player frontend (JF’s WebUI player is questionable at best for music). As noted I use it with Jellyfin, but it does also support Navidrome and anything Subsonic based if that’s your jam.

It is based on Electron (there was an attempt at a rewrite based on Tauri, but it didn’t work out), but for me personally that’s not really a big deal.

Since it’s effectively just a front-end for a media server, much of the functionality you have in your wanted list depend on the media server you use. JF for example doesn’t currently support the smart playlist type stuff you mention (although I think there is some work being done for this), but I think Navidrome does, and so do some of the Subsonic based servers.

What it won’t check on your list is a complete freeform UI, but I guess with enough determination and knowledge you could hack something together to move stuff around since… y’know, JavaScript/CSS.

Dang I was going to suggest strawberry because I had good experiences using it to update album information and syncing listens to music brainz and libre.fm

How about

Based on the video it has

The website lists

Then for library management, use something like beetz
https://beets.io/

Beets was suggested by
https://old.reddit.com/r/linuxaudio/comments/ycxhu8/good_music_library_managers_for_linux/

Same man but it did most things right. More so it was doing it right over 20 years ago and no one else has stepped up to the plate. This is why I was so excited about MusikCube…cue the “I coulda been a contenda.” I’ve tried it a few times over the years despite being console based but just end up filing some bug reports and giving up.

Last time I tried Strawberry there was no bin, it took forever to build and failed several times thanks to the build blasting through my tmpfs for building, which wasn’t a wonderful first impression. When it was done it was slow and bloated. I never cared for those players even if they had all the features. They force vertical side bars and waste space everywhere. Loaded with options but not the ones that matter to me.

In a way a lot of this is like silly crap you can buy with your name on it. If your name was Ted or Samantha you were probably good. You could find pencils, bike plates, erasers, pencil bags and all sorts of other silly “mass produced” personalized crap…but if your name was Reginald or Irving, Ester or Agnes, no fun for you! Strawberry is what the cool kids named Jeff and Tim get…even Jeff and Geoff get to play…but not Mabel and Archibald.

I actually watched Bread’s video on that the other day but it is an MPD client which is a mess and requires a bunch of extra addon daemons running to actually have the features I want. Plus the TUI makes no mention of supporting those extra daemons functionality. I did peek the docs and looks like it would be easy to add column UI for some things but then it becomes one of those “readd every update” type crap. Stuff I have to add/hack things into tips the scales towards the writing my own frontend for something like mpv. I’ve thought about this as a viable solution but age and accumulated burn out has me say no, I’ll make due without.

Tried beets, don’t like it. I use tageditor and puddle. I don’t need suggestions for that heh.

The bit that suggests beets I read a while back and most that stuff is what I’m not looking for and things I’ve already ruled out.

I’m hoping the Tauon guys can fix up all the bugs reports I have open. If they do then @mihawk90 you might want to check it out. It’s minimal and fails spectacularly on the UI placement stuff but it’s kinda already how I want it so it fails yet wins. Some things are a little too “secret hand shake” but nothing too insane. By “secret hand shake” I mean there is no menu or context item for something. You have to know the “secret hand shake” to know how to do X, Y or Z. i.e. RTFM and practice a bit.

It’s sad that if you just want regex/query style functionality it basically removes 99% of all players.

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HQPlayer for Desktop, or if you want a computer that just plays music you can use their Embedded version without a GUI and control it from your desktop/iPad/iPhone/Android/tablet.

The downbsides. The UI is not customizable, but it does use Qt. Also, the cost. It is definitely not freeware. What it is is an exceptionally high quality music playback software that can do some extremely sophisticated DSP, and use an Nvidia card and CUDA to assist, and output perfect audio via USB to an external DAC, to a network endpoint that can be a Raspberry Pi, or out from your computer. It does have streaming services built in,. Qobuz and High Res Audio.

I use the embedded because I built a small, fanless, and yet powerful server just for it and use an Nvidia RTX4000 SFF to help with the DSP.

I do have the desktop downloaded so I can use the client to control the server if I want to. This is what it looks like looking at my local library and the two streaming services.

Client when playing from desktop and upsampling a 24/96 file to DSD256 all in CPU.

Desktop Player:

The entire screen:

And that load on my CPU via btop.

I do believe there is the ability to make playlists, and save them. I don’t use playlists so I don’t mess with it. There is also excepotionally friendly and responsive support if you have a problem. You could also DM me as I have been using this software now for generations.

As I said earlier, it can also be controlled from a phone or tablet. There are free options but I don’t like them. Here is JPlay on iOS controlling my server.

I don’t want to forget, the link to their website:

https://signalyst.com/

and

https://jplay.app/

And with that we have jumped the shark. Suggesting players that not only cost money but don’t have the features I’m looking for is some Ai level stuff. Hey Ai I need a reliable car…I have found one model fitting your requirements the Black and Decker 4 Speed Hand Mixer…

/me pulls up next to some “Ladies”

  • Hey baby, you wanna see how well my car can mix some cookie batter?

…Signing off…

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oh that’s unlucky, I installed the prepackaged version from fedora/windows

if you had nix, I probably would have suggested using the extraConfig variable to inject your plugins as part of the nix config
https://wiki.nixos.org/wiki/MPD

services.mpd = {
  enable = true;
  musicDirectory = "/path/to/music";
  extraConfig = ''
    # must specify one or more outputs in order to play audio!
    # (e.g. ALSA, PulseAudio, PipeWire), see next sections
  '';

  # Optional:
  network.listenAddress = "any"; # if you want to allow non-localhost connections
  network.startWhenNeeded = true; # systemd feature: only start MPD service upon connection to its socket
};

Seems like a opportunity to write your own based on MPD and then never update it

Especially with chatgpt or any big language model, it can take care a lot of the boiler plate stuff. With some of the image models, you can upload a screenshot and tell it to adjust the code.

I’ve been using it to answer questions about nix and other stuff linux bugs. The output isn’t always correct and might get stuck into a loop. If the llm gets in a loop, I find that starting a new chat. I have also borked my system a couple times running commands blindly, but I did the same with commands on the internet XD. The difference is when I fail, it’s much easier to understand how I failed

I am a slow reader with a short attention span so it would take me much longer to learn nix. I also learn better by doing and failing rather than reading a manual/textbook.

MPD would be the last backend I’d choose. heh.

In my experience all I can get LLM’s to do is digitally drool on themselves much less answer basic questions or write code that worked. Either way Vibe Coding will never be on the menu…what’s the point of coding because you enjoy coding if you don’t DO the coding…FK LLM’s :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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lmao… you know why there isn’t good software for linux desktop?

Because nobody wants to pay for it.

Enjoy your crapware.

My DAW is native to Linux…and I paid for it. It however does what I want/need. Your crap player does not. So enjoy your troll shilling, perhaps cry over your lack affiliate sales commission.

no affiliate links here, just a happy customer.

Maybe go touch your lawn.

Hmm FooYin might be a contender…

@mihawk90 Check out Fooyin…barring some lurking issue I’ve not seen yet this is seems to tick every box and is the most defacto Foobar2000 like player I’ve ever seen for *nix…

I’ll be fooling with it for a few days but there might be wedding bells…

Heh why does software these days feel like dating? They’ hot…smart, funny…PLEASE don’t be racist, please don’t be racist…I mean PLEASE don’t be state sponsored malware hehe.

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I used to use MusicBee on Windows, closest-ish musicplayer on Linux is Strawberry.

Had the same experience with it.

Same…

@MazeFrame I kinda wonder why the hell I’d not heard of Fooyin sooner (though it looks to only be a year or two old but so far I’m blown away. It’s a little delicate but so far it’s everything I wanted given it’s basically a foobar clone (but better in a lot of ways) sans some of the jank.

Over the years it seems like all I find at these EZ one panel with an album art background players. Gnome and KDE have like a thousand each. Aside from that it’s always the same tired lists over and over for players…I stumbled across this getting into the 4th and 5th search pages earlier heh. Anyhow very impressed thus far… so long as nothing explodes in a day or so I think my 20+ years search is finally over.

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Tauon was one of the first players I tried after migrating to Jellyfin and for me it was not fun. The library syncing with JF is clunky at best, but that’s not that big of a deal. I just couldn’t get used to the way you interact with the player itself, the weird (partly hidden) shortcuts, and worst of all in the month or so I used it I could not figure out how to goddamn play one single album without it queueing the entire artist and/or rest of the library. The current playing queue was just weird.

Mh that looks interesting, had not found that before. But then again I stopped looking after I found DeaDBeeF and it’s a fairly young project.

side note: this guy gets bonus points for music taste (this is definitely not my most listened album ever in my entire library :skull: )

edit:
Played around with it a little and while setting up the layout I’m missing the option to lock a single panel of a splitter from being resized, which IIRC foobar had. So you have to play around and resize some panels multiple times because it keeps adjusting other panels proportionally at times… kinda hard to explain. Not a huge deal either but it’d be nice if that became an option.
Apart from that it looks pretty solid and even the name/icon (and roadmap) suggests it’s supposed to be a 1:1 Foobar clone.

edit 2:
Another round of playing around: The “Selection Info” panel doesn’t let you choose between what data it shows, and it defaults to showing the data of the currently playing track, so the name is uh… slightly misleading (in fact I can’t get it to show my selected file’s info at all). It also doesn’t let you sort the categories, so it’s always Metadata > Location > General. Also, if you have multiple “Selection Info” panels (I wanted one for current playing track and one for selected track, which isn’t possible anyway), the top 3 options (“Show header”, “Show scrollbar”, “Alternating row colours”) affect the panel type, not the panel, i.e. it is a global option for every panel.

Other then that it seems pretty solid, although I haven’t actually added a library to it, just played some random files from the directory browser (which apparently automatically acts as a playback queue even though the playback queue panel says “Empty Queue” :melting_face: )

XD. I mean you said you didn’t feel like configuring or writing code for the customization so just outsource it to a intern llm

Scrobbling and a tag editor all it needs is album cover search and I might replace strawberry. You found a gem.

You should post it here

Oh wait someone already did

I believe somewhere in the thread I said Tauon UI is a bit like “secret handshakes” so I get it. UI/Behavior can be really personal.

Yeah only a year or two but it’s already way ahead of the core players every stupid site has on their top 10/20/fart best Open Source Audio Players list.

I had DeaDBeeF installed for years but I basically set up a bunch of playlists for console music and NEVER touch it other than to hit play, pause or close. It crashes if you do anything else. Has been that way for me for years across Debian distros and Arch.

I think you want Lock Splitters. I know I did a bunch of trial and error setting it up but the fact you can save and reload makes it way less “OMG” prone if something goes wrong. I’d get one thing where I liked it, save the layout. Next thing, save the layout. As we both mentioned, young project but a HELL of a start…it’s looking to have moved in and brought it’s tooth brush already here. I’ve got some queries for PL going, very happy!

I had a few moments where I was trying to figure out the names of things and what they did. I had a few "-that’s not what I want/expected-’ moments but eventually I figured out everything I wanted. Even if it’s not what you want I’d keep an eye on it, but I find posting things like this thread is a gotcha. For me if I post I find an answer before anyone on the thread does…but if I DON’T post…hehe. Honestly dumb luck I found this as 99% of my searches just return those single panel “basic” players that are so hip these days or streaming network vomit fests trying to be Spotify humping iTunes.

This is all off into the weeds for me. I never use those “3 panel” things with art, artist, album bla bla. I have controls, search, playlists. Simple and tight and a “That’s what she said” joke for good measure.

There are some things like that I noted when I was setting up. Like if you use the “Simple” layout as a base but say remove but readd the search bar it doesn’t interact with the playlists “Search Results” anymore and I don’t know why.

Yeah I know but I just mean if I’m going to “make my own” then I will do it because -normally- I enjoy the process. I’m just burnt out so I’d rather just not do it. Plus no matter how many GPU’s I’ve tossed at LLM’s I’d spend more time unfucking their delusional BS so I might as well do it myself. The only use I’ve found for LLM’s is comedy…like how George Lucas was the technical advisor on Ronald Reagan’s Star Wars defense initiative. Hey LLM, you have 168GB of VRAM and 512GB of system memory and 512CPU Cores…what say you!?

Seems so, hopefully they keep going and really get things all shiny but even with it’s little bit of Jank I’ll take it.