Msi z97 gaming 5 ALC1150 vs O2+ODAC REV2 for AKG K712

Communities Audio Hardware & Music
1

Hi every one! I’m having an hard time finding the right unbiased information and i just find out about this site that is not (i think so) full of idiophile :slight_smile:

So right now, i do have an MSI Z97 Gaming 5 with an ALC1150:
https://us.msi.com/product/motherboard/Z97-GAMING-5.html

On a G4me One Sennheiser and an older version of this one (pc360).

And from what i saw, because tt’s very difficult to have an OBJECTIVLY answere in audio industry, that my chipset is a bit less good than the ODAC but -it may not- be noticiable.

Secondly, my AMP technicaly can go up to 600ohm and power up the microphone i’m looking for “the AKG K712” that is an equivalent of the 702 or the aniversery one.

But you know, every one is marketing. Some people say “it will not work, get at least an amp”., “Motherboard suck, get a O2+ODAC or a Magni2 stack …”, “Buy the headphone/and or ODAC/Schiit and try out”… and some people even say " it’s will run it like a charm "…
Some others are very unware/clueless guys with 2000’ shity motherboard (and don’t even play game exept tetric or doom 1) and can’t believe it improved a bit in the last 16 years…

So, i think i will be getting a AKG K712 anyway to try it out. But i will never find out if i need at least a DAC to improve thing (soundstage and stuff).

I do think my audio is ok/good actualy but i don’t have any AMP/DAC/HEADPHONE to compare so i don’t have ANY EXPERIENCE and nobody to turn to.

The AKG K712 is at least a 280euros budget. I will had a modmic 4.0 for like 50e.
I’m at a minimum of 330euros. So it’s understandable that i may “think about it” before doing some thing.

So anyway, at first i tought sound card like STX II would be cool but i don’t EVER WANT TO come back to the shitiest drivers ever made by a company… Sound company doesn’t know anything about programming software. And sound card are going to disapear soon anyway…
Like AMP and DAC soon with motherboard going stronger and stronger and already well established sound company making aliance with big Motherboard manufacture…

So, i don’t think external AMP/DAC/ and even more soundcard are not future proof. I do think in like 5 years, it will end.

But for know, does a o2 is necessary to run my headphone? does an o2 is a lot better than what i already have? Does a DAC is necessary OR at least better in spec when you already have a good motherboard with gold, alc1150, shield, and shit? Does adding an o2 on an already amp motherboard can break some thing? …i do have other interrogation like disabling audio boost 2 + realtek driver in bios on motherboard if i take a new dac, but we are not here for now.

Like i said my sound is good and i don’t hear any thing EXEPT some thing on teamspeak that is certainly a bit of “noice” when i put my microphone at a low range on teamspeak:

When i tried out a dedicated soundcard at the time “asus gaming some thing card” i had not this but many solftware bug so i dumped this shit away realy fast…

Well, if you can help me on this subject. I think it can help every body in the same situation.
Because i’m like looking about this subject and it’s being very “obsesive”.
Pardon me for my miss spelling world and stuff because it’s not my main language.
But like i say" try to write out what i said in my language if you can :D".

Have a good day people. It must be 14h00 in USA there :slight_smile:

2

I am going to try to get you into the right mindset before commenting on what I think you need (or at least to explain the way I see things first).

The point of any hobby is to enjoy it, to have fun, to entertain yourself..... to make yourself happy. If you like gaming on a 10 year old pc, then awesome. Have fun with it. If you want to have the best of the best, then great. What matters is that you are happy. The same thing works with any other hobby as well. If you can enjoy yourself with a cheap guitar, then you don't need ones that are very expensive. So, if you like your headphones with the equipment you have, then I say stick with it. No reason to spend more money than necessary.

Consequently, my stance is to spend the least amount necessary to make yourself happy. So if you are set on the headphones you want, then get them. Enjoy them. If you find that you need an amp (distortion/artifact sounds/not loud enough/etc), then go from there. If you don't, then don't bother. If you come into some money and want to spend it on audio, then awesome. If you never do, but still enjoy your headphones, then awesome. As long as you are happy, that is all that matters.

Now for my audiophile opinion. I have the Q701 which is basically the same as the K712 (tweaks but the same basic headphones). It works well enough without any amp from the mobo of my desktop and my laptop. It doesn't get terribly loud, and definitely sounds better from my E17+O2, but I don't bother using the E17 with the Q701 while traveling, so it works just fine. See what you think, decide from there.

3

Sound is subjective, if you like what you hear then the gains that will make it sound better will be expensive. Most people know when something sounds bad and if your setup don't sound "bad" then keep what you got. I got the headphone bug and thought the perfect sound was "right around the corner of my next purchase". Went from bad audio to something in the middle to something very expensive. Ended up back in the middle. I now use IEMs instead of headphone, Audio Technica ath IM70. Haven't put my sennheiser HD650s on since I got the IEMs. Sold the high dollar dac/amp and got a good sound card, the Creative ZXR with the daughter board. Two 4 core processors and it sounds just as good and in some ways better than the super clean DAC/AMP. I found that most of my listening was videos on a computer, movies and a little bit of HQ sound tracks. The high dollar DAC/AMP showed it's worth when playing the very clean HQ recordings, but made the majority of the music I listened to sound worse because the imperfections in the sound were much more noticeable. So I settled in the middle, with a $200 sound card and an awesome set of IEMs, and I will never look any further. I think Gigabyte is putting the Creative Sound Core processor on some motherboards now a days. I don't recommend it, they produce a lot of heat. Need to be out in their own enclosure with their own pcie lane so plenty of air can get to them. I've had the ZXR since it came out and don't regret it at all........................... it's good enough, if you know what I mean. I would watch Logan's cheap good heaphone video/s. Basically the Audio Technica ath900 closed or open back depending on your needs and the cheap dac, although I think the dac is a bit over the top and would chose the Creative ZXR over it any day.

4

Hello guys :)
@1920.1080p.1280.720p:

Basicaly you are saying link to youtube :)
I completly understand. Every body have his standard that make him happy and leave with it hopefully!
Because with this logic, the "poor" would be the sadest persons on earth but we now it's not necessary true and some time, completly the contrary.

Did you heard the Q701 to compare to the k712? because "tweaks" can make big differents :)
But basicaly you are the guy "try out and see if you need more" :)

@19DeltaSNAFU:
Hi, dude you just slept in an 6 stars hotel room and woken up in your home with this tought "I don't need this, what i have suit me already".

But the issue with your responses are:
i still don't know:
-ODAC (or schiit magni2 ) does have better spec than a well implemented ALC1150 or not?
-Does the little noise i got on teamspeak is due to eletrical noise? if yes, it some thing due to the DAC ALC1150 perceiving electronic noise? So it would be maybe good to use a DAC?
-Can i run my on going akg k712 at his 99% potencial with my motherboard?
And so, if it will be better with a better amp or better Dac.
-blablablabla yadiyada toyota ....

Because the only thing i know is for dac: more S/N number you have, the best it is. If i look here:
http://schiit.com/products/modi-2
It's 115Db vs 104Db. First it's less and secondly maybe not audible.
About the ODAC, i can't find anywhere the term S/N...
Good sound card does have 120Db or more for exemple but people suggest that DAC is really better if SBX (blablabla) technologies doesn't interest you.

Basicaly i'm looking for "better than i already have".

Have a nice day guys :)

5

The tweaks are definitely a big difference, but I have not listened to anything in the AKG line besides teh Q701. I read up a lot and decided that the Q701 was closest to what I was looking for, so I went with that. It seems to have worked out well. But you seem to understand my view point. Why spend money when you don't have to? If you decide after you get the headphones that you want a little bit more, then you can always add a dac and amp later on, but there it absolutely no harm in testing it out first and seeing what you think without it first. Hope you enjoy it!

6

Hi back.

Like i said:
But the issue with your responses are:
i still don't know:
-ODAC (or schiit magni2 ) does have better spec than a well implemented ALC1150 or not?
-Does the little noise i got on teamspeak is due to eletrical noise? if yes,
it some thing due to the DAC ALC1150 perceiving electronic noise? So it
would be maybe good to use a DAC?
-Can i run my on going akg k712 at his 99% potencial with my motherboard?
And so, if it will be better with a better amp or better Dac.
- ....

If you can response without any doubt to some of these questions, i would huge you :))
Because the thing is "if you want better later, buy later". Yes but i don't know if it will be :D
It's like, i have A and I can't decide if A is enough/better or if i only need B or both (C).
When you give me a response like this one "then you can always add a dac and amp later on" , it's like to me "buying a ODAC+o2 or a magni2 + Modi 2 will be better". How can without any knowledge and friends where to try sound stuff, if it will be better?
Spec comparaison are important here.

7

An external dac will have better specs, but I don't think it will translate into that much of a better sound. If you are getting any noise with any specific program/application then it is a problem with that application. A dac won't help improve the audio quality of youtube/teamspeak/pandora/etc. It will only remove the limitation of the onboard dac. It will be better with a decent dac/amp, but whether or not you notice it is largely determined by how much you are listening for those specific changes and how used to high quality audio you are. For example, my friend couldn't tell the difference between my rather bass light Q701 and my bass heavy Soundmagic HP100. So some people are more aware of the differences than others. I think that realistically, I would rather spend the money on more headphones (for different sound signatures) than on a dac or amp. Of course, getting a solid dac and amp will remove the limitation of the mobo output, so upgrading to something decent is worthwhile, but I only think it is worthwhile if you are planning on putting more money into audio.

My honest opinion on the matter is that if you are happy, stop spending money. If you want to put more money into audio, then headphones will make the biggest difference (so buy headphones first). If you are planning on having a decent amount of money in audio and having multiple headphones, then getting a decent dac and amp is a worthwhile investment. If you aren't, then I don't think that the cost is justified by the improvement. The reasoning is simple. A decent dac and amp can be used with every headphone that you could realistically want (with the right connection). So if you have more than one headphone, then a dac/amp will improve (although slightly) the audio of every one of those headphones. You get what I am saying here? Order of purchase should be headphones, then dac and amp, then more headphones. I think you will be happy with just the headphones though (assuming you picked a sound signature you like).

Hope that better answered your questions.

8

I really like listening to you but it's hard to have the rights answeres :D
-I completly understand that not every body will percieve "sound" the same way (physicaly speaking and not scientificaly ears // machine measurement).
-I do understand that headphone is the most important part of the process in audio listening.
-I do understand it will basicaly improve sound on good sources (lossless) for music and every things for gaming depending on the headphone (i choose this one because he have to be good in every aspect).
-It's nice to have a DAC/AMP when you have multiple headphone BUT if your motherboard already do the job and your DAC/AMP are DESKOP, it's basicaly the same.

But i still have all the same questions non answered :D

Scientificaly speaking (spec),
-does my ALC1150 is better or not than the ODAC or schiit equivalent?
-Even if i don't "really" need an AMP, will it be better than what i have and give some thing more?

Will be my last post for this night :) 23h09 here. Have a good day

EDIT: I have a very important question two. If i get the Objective 2(so O2+ODAC in the same box), can i only use one(only o2) or the other (only DAC)? The same thing for the Schiit Fulla?
Or in order to do it, i have to purchase them separetly to decide or not if i just want to use one of the both.

9

You have the Mobo with the onboard.

Get the Headphones, have a listen.
Then decide if awesom or meh.

is that a plan ?

Sidenotes:
K612pro are similiar and cheaper. Logan once said that they are compareble. I have them, like them. listened to them with my iphone, Asus phone, crapp onboard, alc1150, creative sound shit.
ALC 1150 is no problem under linux and OSX hackintoshs.
Creative is a horror, at least for me. So no creative soundblaster what ever sound card.
Just wanted to say that, just to be sure that no one comes up with that stupid idea.

10

Hi @RageBone

So you have a mobo running an ALC 1150, with i presume an integrated mobo amp, and you are running your HiFi k612Pro just like fine beside the fact it need good amp to run fine??

And AKG similarities is really subjective and an issue. Some people say it's a Q701, some other say it's a 702... Yadiyada story my friend :)

There are what tests can percieve and what common humans mecanic ears can too :)
And on top of that you have your brain and the brains of others people with their own tasts/interests(biased or not)...

11

@pocadontas

Yes i had 2 motherboards with ALC1150. Wanted to stay with it but didn't read enough.
FUCK GIGABYTE.
Gigabyte Z97 gaming 5 matx -> atx -> gaming g1 (uses creative)
cant hear a difference form alc 1150 to creatvie sound core 3d shit.
sounds good. drivers are shit. especially linux.

Win10:
cant turn them up to full, i don't want to go deph. So its defently louder then i need it.
and i have the gain switch on the low setting. or Standart how ever you call it.
As far as i think i could switch that and make it louder but for what ?
But my k612 only have like 100 something ohms and the 7xx something around 600.

Another sidenote:
I also have the k553pros, from MAssdrop with 32Ohms and i don't have a problem with switching between both all the time. So the volume is the only difference i can hear for sure.

12

If i understand correctly, you had a good experience with the ALC1150 but not with the "3d shit from creative" that was added with your motherboard?

But after you are speaking of gain but from what? :)

Basicaly, i want to compare this
http://www.clubedohardware.com.br/datasheets/ALC1150-CG_DataSheet_1.0.pdf
to this

First of all, i don't know shit about these terms. I tried to identify "term" to compare number but they (maybe on purpose) don't use the same...

13

lets stopp the chit chat.

You already have the board.
Buy the headphones.

Test.
Decide!

Its not unbearble with the alc1150 so you wount die while waiting for your o2Amp.

And i checkt the manual for your board, and i am confused now, what gain actually means on motherboards. gona reed a bit on..
Never the less, your motherboard has a switch for the audio chip, but that switches the power source of the audio stuff. I have the suspicion that one could call that "gain" but never mind.

14

Why are you so aggresive dude?I'm just asking questions that need to be answere. Not only for me but every body. And it's you who talked about "gain" and i didn't understand what you wrote... And yes, you can active audio boost 2 on the motherboard.

15

Hello, any one to compare numbers?

Best regard

edit:

bumb

16

Hi,
i'm sorry if that seemed agressive, it wasn't intendet like that. I tend to swander around a topic and it was my try to keep myself on topic.

explaining what gain is, is hard. I suggest that you google that yourself.

But i checked the manual of your motherboard.
There is a switch labeled audio_sw, that acording to the manual switches the audio pouer-source.
theoretically, if the alc is to low power for your AKGs then, well flipp it and have a listen.

I pretty much doubt that comparing numbers isn't realy telling you anything.

So, i repete it again.

You have the alc 1150.
the AKGs are recommendeable!
then have a listen.

an o2Amp / Dac is like 200 and more.

Sincerly Rage

17

Hi, no problem. My audio_sw has always been activated since in got my computer :) I will be able to get an O2 this month with a new pair oh headphone (akg k712).
I was just looking for answeres concerning the optimal performance of a DAC comparing to the internal one that is the ALC1150.

I know the audio world is very "subjective" and it's very sad to not have proper answeres without trying it out ourself and praying for no placebo effects. Because if some one ask to the good persons "on a spec point of view, which one is better" and can't respond... And just say "look, external>all, buy some thing and get out".

It's sad that you don't have good technical analysts, or not enough, to work on and make sure that seller doesn't profit of this weakness.

Honestly, audio is going to change and has already a lot changed.
15 years ago, nobody in the motherboards and computers world worried aboutgood sound quality. Dedicated mother board arrived and then external stuff too. But now it's changing and MB have "pretty much" catch up already "good standard" quality DAC and AMP with the help of well established companies like asus and creative.
I'm pretty sure in the next 7 years , the audio world like you are leaving in right now with will evolve really fast at a point that all your external stuff will just "disapear".

18

Well, i will maybe never have a response about this :)

But i have one question that people could answere.
My motherboard have already an integrated amp. But it does have some thing (talked a bit by Rage) that "boost" the sound. Do i have to disable it while using o2?