Over the past few years, I have accumulated more and more PCs around my house. A gaming PC. A small server for home assistant. A NAS. A 1L small Linux workstation (I mean, who wants to use windows all the time? yuck).
Most of this stuff is pretty old. My gaming PC in particular is SUUUPER old and starting to fall over in games because the CPU (Xeon 2697 v3) is crap (I have a 6800xt GPU so that should be fine for most stuff).
So, I’m thinking about building a new PC. The newest AMD hardware is all just really good. The more I think about it, the more I kind of would like to just consolidate as much of this stuff as I can into one machine. So, I came here to get some feedback about if this is feasible.
The idea would be to have one machine to rule them all - a Proxmox system which can run a Windows gaming VM, a TrueNAS VM, a Linux desktop VM, a Linux server VM, all in one.
I have been thinking about some sort of 16-core AMD part (Ryzen 7xxx series, Threadripper Pro 5xxx series, or now the shiny new Genoa Epyc processors AMD showed off today) would be sufficient for this purpose. However, I’m concerned that the Ryzen boards don’t have a lot of I/O capability (limited PCI-E lanes, etc), which is why I’m thinking about bumping up to the TRP/Epyc tier. I’m really curious to see how the Threadripper Pro 5955wx will stack up against the Epyc 9124 (non-F SKU) which seems more or less comparably priced.
I will also want at least 128GB of RAM, which I have heard doesn’t work so well on Ryzen parts - 2 DIMMs per channel seems to make the memory a lot slower. Not sure how that stacks up against TRP/Epyc though which are probably slower anyway (not taking into consideration the DDR4/5 differences).
Anyway, does this seem stupid? Should I just wait for the X3D Ryzen 7, upgrade my gaming PC and leave well enough alone?
While this is certainly possible and can have advantages, at least in the case of a NAS, one of the big reliability advantages is that it’s not tied into the same hardware. If your desktop power supply were to short and explode, as unlikely as that is, the NAS would be likely unaffected in a normal separated configuration. Harddrives also don’t need to obstruct any airflow or take physical space away from ventilation or performance components. If you need to restart your desktop for a bios configuration change or some such, this doesn’t disrupt the availability of your files.
I think the idea of consolidated compute and multipurpose machines is fascinating, and a technology worth developing and embracing, but I think it would make more sense to merge your home assist and NAS, or your linux workstation and windows gaming PC, rather than trying to do everything at once. Think about how compatible use cases are, and start small.
A NAS and home assistant both require high availability, looking towards 24/356 uptime and reliability over performance, right? So, both of these use cases have a lot of overlap and can share resources effectively.
A workstation and a gaming PC have a lot in common as well. Performance is more important than 24/365 reliability, and while you might be fighting over budget, power, or cooling in theory, the reality is you won’t be gaming and working at the same time anyway, so it really boils down to budget and connectivity, both of which will be easier building a machine to do both than two separate machines in most cases.
It’s great to consolidate compute resources for a lot of reasons. It’s less computers to manage, lower power bills, and less excess heat in the summer. Worth looking into. But, make sure the use cases are compatible, rather than trying to force everything into one box, imho.
This. I think you should consolidate to three PCs; One NAS, one Linux PC and one router machine. This is because you want your two 24/7 machines to draw as little power as possible, and you do want the physical separation of your router and NAS box to make it harder to get PWNd.
As for the rest… What are your needs? Most Linux lab servers only require virtual network and a single core/thread, these days - that makes the Ryzen 7950X quite interesting, and could very well be what you want. This would allow you to save a bit on your budget as opposed to a threadripper or EPYC. Then again, AM5 is limited in number of PCIe lanes and while a bit weak on the VFIO side, it could still be enough for your needs. A good 7950X system, even though the boards are at a premium right now, should land you around $2000 while Threadripper starts at $3000 and can easily reach $5000.
As for a low-power server/NAS, I have been seeing some successful builds with a 12100 or 12400. The Ryzen 5700X or 5700G is also interesting if you want something more powerful but still low power draw, only drawback is that the 5700X will need a separate low power GPU like the Radeon 550, Radeon RX 6400 or GeForce GTX 1630 or 1030.
We are also at the point where NVMe NAS are starting to become a viable option for home use. Since 2TB is now $120 an 8TB NAS could definitely be a thing. Using something like the Velka 3 + x16 PCIe expansion card, I could see you have a powerful NAS server in a 4L enclosure sipping max 150W of power including drives. E.g. something like this:
Not too shabby for 8 TB and would prep you for the future - but I understand if it’s too out there for now. Still waiting for 4TB to creep below $250, and it is inevitable that we will reach 32 TB per NVME within five years. Even at current nodes, 3D stacking will guarantee that it happens, and future nodes might push that to 32 TB / chip for a whopping 128 TB per SSD.
I think that your current hardware is probably still totally fine for a nas.
Although it´s probably not the most power efficient system in that regards.
But i would also advice to keep the NAS as a separate system.
And just build a workstation that suits your needs in regards to gaming and work.
I think that a main stream workstation with a Ryzen 7900X / 7950X.
would suite most of your needs in regards to gaming and a couple of vm´s.
Another option could also be 13700K or 13900K intel system in that regards.
However the E cores on the intel parts are of course not as powerful as,
the full cores on like the AMD 7950X.
However it highly depends on your workloads if that would truly be a negative factor.
Threadripper pro could be an option if you truly need allot of pcie lanes.
However TR is pretty expensive and might be a bit overkill for just,
a linux vm and a bit of gaming.
Essentially you want your infrastructure stuff to be low power, resilient, etc but the gaming box will need to be regularly updated and maybe run less well tested software and need reboots more often.
Unless you want all your stuff to go down when your gaming pc does, stuffing it all in the same box is a bad idea.
Just on dual rank memory config: slower clocks? Yes. Much slower in reality? Nope. I get competitive benchmark scores in 3d mark for my platform with dual rank config. I beat plenty of single rank machines and my memory tuning amounts to “load XMP profile and reduce clock until stable”. Because I’m lazy and it works well anyway. None of my machines have ryzen QVL memory kits in them.
Hi Sir,
What is the that you finally decided to go with for building your machine - Ryzen, Threadripper PRO or EYPC server?
Would like to know more about you analysis and decision that you took for building new PC. With respect to memory channels, Threadripper PRO and EYPC provides more channels and PCLe lanes.
I’ve pretty much decided to wait for TR 7000 which hopefully will be coming out this fall sometime. If there’s a non-pro set of SKUs I’ll almost definitely go with one of those.
On another note, I also decided to take the advice of folks here and keep 3 separate machines - one will be my storage server and the other a workstation, and I’ll keep a router (though my router now is having trouble, which if you’re curious about I just made another post on that topic). I’ll still probably run some server stuff on the workstation in VMs or containers or whatnot, but I’ll probably also keep around my storage box for spinning rust.
Anyway, thanks for the advice, everyone! I appreciate it.
I had a similar end-goal in mind as OP, and settled on this build after a lot of trial & error
desired requirements;
able to handle pretty much any compute task I can throw at it
strong capabilities for potential AI usages with LLM’s
small~ish PC form factor thanks to apartment life, easier to move, etc
note that I already have a separate “file & backup storage server”, and already have a dedicated pfsense router (Netgate 1100 model), so I did not need or want those functionalities in the build.
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total
$3990.00
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-06-19 11:40 EDT-0400
considerations - aka “why I went with this build instead of any other configuration”
as OP mentions, Ryzen 7000 Threadripper, etc., is still on the horizon and not here yet
AM4 platform is pretty mature at this point; in contrast AM5 gives a lot of impressions of “growing pains”
I dont actually have any personal need for things like ECC memory since this is just personal hobbyist usages
not really interested in “upgrading” and its more appealing to just start with the final CPU for the AM4 platform from the get-go
the biggest reason: price. Ryzen 5950X is (was) in the $450 USD range, 128GB DDR4 is about $330, premium AM4 mobo is about $400; most of these are significantly cheaper than AM5 parts, and massively cheaper than any Threadripper build
power usage will generally be lower than on Threadripper or Epyc especially if you put the 5950X in Eco Mode
I did consider heavily going with Ryzen 7000 instead, and did look closely at other Threadripper builds, but ultimately the combination of price:performance, lower power, and potentially smaller form factor, all in the same build, became a significant consideration. After all, the savings from going this route gave me a lot more budget to put towards the GPU configuration, which can be expanded in the future if something like a RTX A6000/ 6000 Ada if used prices ever comes down to earthly mortal prices.
I am hoping that this build can last me for quite a long time. Instead of jumping in on Ryzen 7000, I am thinking instead to just wait it out a few generations, maybe revisiting a potential new build closer to e.g. Ryzen 9000 or closer to the end of the AM5 life cycle.
just my experiences with this type of topic, maybe some helpful insights to be had here. Best regards
After having more annoying problems with my gaming PC, I am back to thinking about this again. Grumpiness breeds impatience, in my case.
So, I started looking further abroad for options, and wanted to get some additional input from the smart people here. This is probably a dumb idea, but here goes:
How about a 4-series Epyc frequency-optimized processor? I was thinking the 9274F, which is a Zen 4 24-core 48-thread CPU which boosts up to 4.3Ghz - definitely more expensive than a Zen 3 Threadripper Pro 5965wx (the 24-core part) by something like $600-1k, depending on how prices of each are at the moment. However, it has a higher base clock (though a lower boost clock), and is Zen 4 so the performance should be a bit higher - plus you get DDR5 & PCIE5 for some moderate future proofing.
The advantages: Modern CPU, modern memory, tons of PCIE lanes.
The disadvantages: Only really one board available (H13SSL from Supermicro), and it’s definitely a server board, not a workstation board, with all that implies (lack of sound output, etc).
I expect that the 7000 TR series, like the 5000 series before it will probably only be available to system integrators for the first 6 months or so of its release, so that means September is unlikely to actually make those available to me unless I want to shell out an additional several thousand dollars over retail.
So anyway, should I curb my money-spending demon and try to hold out until TR7k is actually available or yell SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY and build a ridiculous epyc gamestation PC because I want it NOW</spoiled brat>?
I made this mistake with my Rome/Milan generation Epyc system, and I’d strongly suggest to wait for a workstation board.
I had told myself that things like multi-minute boot times (waiting for the BMC to initialize), only having 2 USB ports, and no onboard audio were minor shortcomings I could work around. But the reality is the lack of polish in those areas (and many others) inherent to a server board wears on your patience over time. This led to me parting out and selling the system after only about a year.
A workstation board will provide a much better experience.
