2 minutes in, they’re talking about jumping through hoops in order to get Ubuntu “up to date” enough to play games. To which all I can say is…Wat?
Here’s my process. I install Ubuntu, I install Steam, I download a game, I start playing the game. The hell are these guys doing, version wanking?
… and this will never happen.
Games aren’t somebody writing code to help themselves out and then deciding to give it away because why not.
Writing a decent game in 2019 (or hell, even 10 years ago) is a LOT of time and effort (and therefore expense).
There’s a reason open-source games are generally far and away less well done than commercial offerings and it is simply the amount of work required vs. the resources available to a hobby developer.
they’re talking about jumping through hoops in order to get Ubuntu “up to date” enough to play games. To which all I can say is…Wat?
They’re Nvidia shills (I kid… mostly), and they’re used to Windows.
You generally do have to install, update, reboot, install the proprietary video driver, and then reboot. Especially with bleeding edge hardware, and especially so using LTS-based distros.
Also… nearly every gamer-centric Ubuntu tutorial tells you to do crazy stuff like use PPAs and use Ubuntu Kernel Upgrader.
On one hand, there’s a ton of Ubuntu info on the internet. On the other hand, there’s a ton of really bad Ubuntu on the internet.
I don´t really see why MS should be afraid about Linux gaming really.
As long as Linux still hasn´t figured out that they still have the same chicken and egg problem,
they already had 15 years ago.
Then i don’t really think that MS has really that much to be afraid off.
and this will never happen.
I don’t disagree with your points. I do disagree that this is required to develop games.
Look at massive projects like Kubernetes or OpenStack, all of which are developed commercially, rather than hobbyist developers.
I think games could get there, if there was desire. Even if the games assets themselves aren’t released as Free Software, the underlying code could be.
Installers, hardware detection, rendering libraries… all of them would benefit from a shared, cooperatively developed codebase.
And even Richard Stallman himself doesn’t have a problem with the game assets being non-free. He considers them art, not software.
But yes, you’re right. Given the current landscape, gamers won’t become interested in Free Software.
Because I agree with you, that’s why I think targeting gamers is a bad way to promote Linux. That ecosystem, more than any other, is hostile to the things that make using Linux awesome.
yes, I did fast
good good, this feeds my bias that I my pick was best pick
Perhaps i should clarify my stance.
Can you make games for free? Sure. There are plenty that exist.
The point though is that you simply will not get the same frequency of release or quality of release through open source because
Like it or not, a commercial game usually has a focused vision behind it from someone providing incentive (financial reward) to a dedicated team who’s job is to get the project out the door.
Gaming tech simply moves way too quickly for hobbyists to keep up with the bleeding edge. And given the choice between say, an open source free game that’s using the finest tech (in terms of graphical prowess, etc.) that say, 2005 had to offer (in 2019), most gamers will be willing to spend money for something that pushes their 2019 hardware as far as it can be pushed.
And given there’s a market, there will be companies willing to take that money and use it to push the envelope.
I mean, what’s the most impressive open source/free game you’ve ever seen, and how does the level of technological advancement compare to say, Doom 2016, Elite Dangerous, Skyrim, etc.?
People have been making open source games for decades, but they’ve never been anywhere close and due to simple economics; i think that entertainment in general (not just gaming) will ALWAYS be dominated by commercial offerings.
its not just code either. artists, musicians, etc. all need to eat too and all are required for a high quality release.
Put it this way. What’s the state of VR on Linux for example? What open-source/free VR games are there? The rift has been out for 2-3 years at this point… and VR tech is much older than that.
edit:
Business type/infrastructure software is different. People have a need, write code, then release because they already did the work and it can help someone else.
Gaming is not a NEED that is released as an afterthought.
That said, using games as a way of promotion linux adotopion - i think it’s actually a positive.
Just because games are not likely to be open and free, it doesn’t mean the platform you run them on can’t be. Already plenty of older titles are running on top of DOSBOX or WINE on multiple platforms, Linux is just the next step.
However, it’s all moot.
At this point, Linux WILL be the default OS, it is just a matter of time. There’s simply a diminishing return on any other company or group attempting to build a competitor. Like i said in my first post. The hosting OS is a commodity now. They’re all essentially good enough, and wasting time and resources to reinvent the wheel is time and resources that anyone (e.g., Microsoft) could spend on the software to run on top of the platform. And that’s where the money is. A Linux customer running 365 apps (or say, Microsoft games) in a browser (or natively) is still a customer.
This is the thing. People say this. I can’t tell you the last time this was actually true. Years ago at this point. Like, months after Steam moved Steam On Linux out of invite-only beta, the open source Radeon driver was good enough to handle some of the prettier games out there. Fast forward a few years, we have AMDGPU, and I don’t even bother with the AMDGPU-Pro driver unless I’m gearing up to crack passwords.
It’s also been a year or two since I tried out an Nvidia card, but honestly installing the proprietary drivers for the Nvidia card is exactly as easy as they showed with Pop OS. Probably because it’s the same process.
One of these days I’ll have to give Arch a try. But from an outside perspective, it just feels like another Gentoo. I spent waaaaay too many years on Gentoo. And I’m just not running into any of these deficiencies that other people are vaguely referencing.
Can you make games for free? Sure. There are plenty that exist.
“Free as in freedom, not free as in beer.”
Under the current model, where people pay for access to a game, pump money into it via microtransactions and DLC, and have to constantly phone home to play…
Yeah, that wouldn’t work, but all of those features are things gamers hate with a passion.
Nothing saying Free Software has to be gratis. You can charge for it, you just have to provide the source code once you release it.
Pillars of Eternity raised ~$4m before releasing a single copy of the game via crowdfunding. If they had also released source code, they would have made exactly the same amount of money on a Free Software game.
Just because the current model is broken and people are used to it doesn’t mean that no models for the creation of Free Software games can exist.
Like it or not, a commercial game usually has a focused vision behind it from someone providing incentive (financial reward) to a dedicated team who’s job is to get the project out the door.
Nothing prevents a Free Software game from being commercial. You’re making the same arguement that existing game developers make for restricting games with DRM.
Someone might get a copy of it for free. That’s only a problem if you feel entitled to money from everybody who uses your software. That’s a fallacious arguement; to operate a sustainable business you need to profit from the overall creation of the game - not from every computer that executes a copy of it.
Gaming tech simply moves way too quickly for hobbyists to keep up with the bleeding edge.
Again, nothing about Free Software restricts it to hobbyists. The majority of Linux kernel contributors are professionally employed by for-profit companies. When companies make an effort to support Free Software development, support for devices land in the Linux kernel before the products hit the market.
Device driver code for Intel’s upcoming GPU is already in Linux. You can’t buy that card right now.
There’s no reason the same can’t be true for the Vulkan APIs, Xorg or Wayland, for Steam or EA Origin. They simply don’t care about it.
What’s the state of VR on Linux for example? What open-source/free VR games are there?
Admittedly, I have no idea. But I also couldn’t tell you about successful VR Windows games. I know next to nothing about VR.
Just because games are not likely to be open and free, it doesn’t mean the platform you run them on can’t be.
I agree with this entirely.
I actually think it’s a good thing any time someone makes any critical decision about the software they use. Someone who hates Windows 10 and thinks about moving over to Windows 7, a Mac, or Linux is thinking critically about software, and that’s a good thing.
That said…
using games as a way of promotion linux adotopion - i think it’s actually a positive.
I agree, but only if people point out the reasons Linux is superior.
If we kneecap those qualities in favor of adoption, we kneecap the things that make Linux valuable. Does everything have to be Unix-like? No. Does everything have to be Free Software? No. Does everything have to be distributed? No.
But we should be shouting from the rooftops that those things are what make Linux a better choice than Windows. If they go away, Linux stops being a better option. Let’s not brush those things under a rug.
At this point, Linux WILL be the default OS, it is just a matter of time. […] The hosting OS is a commodity now.
I also agree. I’m really cynical about the future of desktops.
This isn’t even a “Linux versus Windows” thing. Canonical, Suse, Red Hat… they’ve all failed to make desktop operating systems profitable. Even Microsoft no longer demands activation keys to use their desktop operating system; you can download and use it for free.
The ubuiquity of mobile has sealed the deal, I think. Mobile and console gaming’s on the rise, and desktops themselves are ethusiast playthings.
But I agree with your conclusion. Linux will be the predominant operating system in the near future, simply because it’ll survive.
Some good points and i agree with most of what you say, however i do take issue with a couple of these points:
In many ways, the design of Linux is massively inferior to Windows. The implementation of the design is good, but many, many parts of linux are way, way behind.
Sound (pulse is a joke), display subsystem (Windows display driver crash = driver restarts and you’re good. Linux display driver crashes - and yes i’ve had a few with CentOS + AMDGPU - kernel panic), etc.
Linux as a product is good, but it’s a decade or more behind in various aspects. It’s ahead in others, but to call Linux technically superior overall is in my opinion misguided.
And I say someone who hates Microsoft (and windows, but Microsoft as a company specifically) with a vengeance. I believe they put the computing landscape back by at least 15 years with some of their brain damage.
the unix design principles are not necessarily superior to Windows or other platforms.
I disagree, but you can like chocolate and I can like vanilla, ice cream is still wonderful. I think average computer users don’t have strong opinions on operating system design principles. If they don’t like Unix design principles and agree with you, they should probably use Windows. It’s the only other option with even a modicum of support. 
Redhat, IBM and a number of others tend to steer Linux, like or not and they are all commercial entities.
Some people might have a problem with that because of a political or economic philosophy, but it’s still distributed. “Business continuity” concerns still apply for home users, even if they don’t know the term.
If IBM and Red Hat pack up their Linux development, you’ve still got Microsoft (a major contributor), Canonical, et cetera. If Microsoft packs up Windows development, or Apple packs up MacOS development… it’s done.
That’s not true with Linux, even though development is concentrated.
Sound (pulse is a joke)
It’s a good thing we have ALSA, OSS, and Pipewire too! /s
display subsystem (Windows display driver crash = driver restarts and you’re good. Linux display driver crashes
That shouldn’t happen. I’m not saying it doesn’t, just that it shouldn’t. Only kernel failures should cause kernel panics. Bugs exist, and they should be fixed.
i’ve had a few with CentOS + AMDGPU - kernel panic
I have serious misgivings about CentOS. And some about the amdgpu stuff that hasn’t been mainlined. Those don’t seem to be inherent to Linux though; other distros manage to avoid those problems.
but to call Linux technically superior overall is in my opinion misguided.
I take operating systems as a whole. If GNU+NT+CoreAudio were an available option, I’d be holding it to that standard.
I do think you should use the best operating system, and I think given all options, Linux is that. It has flaws, but less than others, and fewer endemic flaws than any other available option.
Can confirm did that with antergos on my laptop, I have seen the light switching to fedora.
The video drivers are IN KERNEL.
So, it does happen, by design. The way around this is user mode drivers, but for whatever reason, Linux doesn’t seem to be going down this path. Probably because Linus and others refuse to maintain a driver ABI.
So, a driver crash is a kernel crash. A driver exploit is a kernel exploit, security wise. Which is dumb.
Don’t get me wrong. I’ve gotten rid of all but one of my Windows installs. Because for me Linux (or macOS/iOS depending on the device form factor) is more palatable.
But i’m not one-eyed enough to ignore the advances Windows has made in various areas where Linux is still years or decades behind.
literally OpenSUSE
I think it’s time for a noob to linux (almost 3 years I think) who only wants his system to ‘‘just work’’ chime in on this sentiment
I run an LTS based distro. Ubuntu 18.04. And I have updated my kernel using Ukuu (Ubuntu Kernel Update Utility). I’ve also installed PPAs for stuff I wanted. I’ve never had to restart my rig so far unless I wanted to jump over to Windows on a separate drive for a program I have that won’t work with Wine. I’ve never had to restart my Ubuntu due to a driver update. And I sure as hell only had to restart once updating the Kernel because my video card’s drivers didn’t work with the amdgpu ppa. So I needed the driver that was in the Kernel. Running 4.20 kernel now, and I haven’t had a single reboot to an update since I did it. That was nearly 6 months ago. I’ve restarted of my own volition a couple times for Windows that’s it.
This has been my experience mostly until I got new video card. Then I had to update my kernel to get rid of horrendous screen tearing that I just couldn’t ignore.
Honestly, Windows has had a similar approach to this with the ‘‘system restore’’ feature since I think Vista right? Why is it that Linux doesn’t have something like this natively by now? It’s been years! I would love this right here. Why is it we’re stuck with backing up personal files, and config files we made and having to resort to just re-installing? Why can’t we just make a restore point like in Windows? I’ve been waiting for this in Linux for the last three years i’ve been using it. Restore points were a godsend for me when I used to use windows. Because I screwed with some configuration file I shouldn’t have in Windows.
P.S. I also read Wendell’s post in his voice. That’s kinda creepy!
So I slept on the video and I must say I shouldn’t of rushed making a topic and ranting.
I see some of you thought I was against the video in general, and no I believe the video is a good thing for new users on linux, they did explain a lot of stuff.
My main grudges were the chosen distributions ( mainly manjaro ) but then again thinking about it again no matter which distro they chose there would be something to rant about it. Manjaro has a quite big fanbase right now and support on forums and sites is good so I would say it was a good choice.
@thro and @imhigh.today guys I feel like you are missing the point of the conversation, and while your comments were quite nice to read, it’s good to talk about such things I feel like it should be in another topic. The idea if this topic was to comment on the decisions of LTT in their video.
@AnotherDev I share your opinion about the title but clickbait drives views. Thanks for deleting your comment before there is war in here.
@MisteryAngel can’t agree more. But now that I thought about it this video will increase the people in the linux community which hopefully will help fix this problem.
True, even me. Which seem I have forgotten when I initially wrote my post.
My intentions were not to gatekeep, more like ranting about what they chose. I am not gonna stop users who want to use manjaro I was just hoping they would also include software like Timeshift or maybe BtrFS with snapper. Something that would make a Manjaro break more bearable.
There is a few ways to have such a feature. Timeshift is what you are looking for. OpenSUSE when installed with the default File system ( BtrFS ) also has that feature activated by default and if something breaks you can load a previous snapshot from the GRUB menu on boot.
Manjaro is pretty much the only distro to ever dethrone Mint on distrowatch.
All a restore point does is rollback the registry state. Which is fucking useless most of the time.
Oh yeah. The more warm bodies are the better.