Dpkg has been fairly stable for a long time. FFS, its one of the older package managers.
That doesn’t mean that the packages it manages are stable though. #ubuntu
Move the goalposts much?
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It doesn’t matter if Dpkg is 200 years old. It’s about how and if it works as intented (With included package dependencies) My point still stands. Yours does not 
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This attitude is exactly the sort of toxic attitude that drives people away from linux.
But yes, it’s about if it works as intended. My entire point here is that it could not have possibly done what you’re saying unless there was a filesystem inconsistency.
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Have u installed Pop_OS before? Do u know how it works? Why don’t u try it first? Before exclaiming superior linux-know-how?
I’m tired of linux zealots. That spew package and or package dependance bs. It’s the same garbage you’re all doing. THATS the actual toxicity.
Because u know how every package works, but don’t include other viable information that ALL of you already know.
If 1 line of code was added for every linux zealot that talks about package dependency know-how. Phew, linux would be far superior by now
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I’d just like to say that I continue to have problems every day with my Fedora install with both x11 and wayland KDE on a triple monitor setup. The DE issues that plague Linux are major problems that need to be addressed before it will be considered a serious contender in the home/office computer space.
On the subject of the LTT video, I just watched it and thought that so far it is a great “real world” look at Linux. When I first started using Linux as a DD in early 2020 it was a STEEP learning curve. The only reason that I continued to use it was because I am working on my Cyber Security degree and I knew that I needed to invest the time and effort to learn. I think that the two perspectives offered by Luke and Linus are great examples of the “intermediate” user experience.
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Should we just rename this thread to “The age old linux discussion… Again!” already??
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Still waiting for your point. A live-cd does not always work as intended. Not even always, but often. Same goes for an install that’s not updated, LTS or not. Are we done yet?
If you had ANY actual interest in the topic we’re on. You’d install Pop_OS and check things out yourself, and report back.
Y’all need to have some chill
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I don’t understand what you are trying to get across here.
First, you are arguing about how Pop_OS! isn’t at fault and it is the user when pop specifically markets itself to new Linux users and then gave Linus nothing but problems. This is good criticism that the System76 devs should be paying attention to.
Then, you want to argue about
When in fact you were doing exactly that
Arguing on technicalities when the whole point of this video is that using a desktop Linux distro shouldn’t be a technical operation with in-depth knowledge of how the OS handles tasks. It should either just work or be holding the users hand through all of the basic day 1 setup and installs.
I think that you are missing the point. Installing steam from the package manager on Pop_OS! Should have been a single click. If there were updates that needed to happen in order to maintain system integrity then why was the user not informed or guided to making that happen first? The whole point of this video and the series is to provide constructive criticism to projects and advocates that are pushing for Linux to be an “Everymans” operating system. When you come in here and just start going on about how it is all the users fault and Pop_OS! was doing everything right you are not actually contributing to the discussion.
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Already made my points in the above posts which u didnt bother to read / understand.
I’m not spewing the same at all.
@SgtAwesomesauce argues that packages are set and works as intended also on a newly non-updated system. They don’t always. And he’s well aware of it and why.
Yes the OS should work as-is. Which is one of the points i made that Pop_OS could handle updating faster / better on a newly installed system.
Yes the user was informed about updates. But did not care to listen / read about warnings from the operating system. Which could be handled better / faster by the Pop_OS devs. Agreed. Nothing to argue about.
Both mirror / package handling can be set to work faster or the warning about updating can be handled better. As to inform the user to update before installing potential programs. Not much to argue about there either.
The depends on how and if the user actually uses the UI. There are several warnings. I don’t remember how many but at least 2. On newly installed systems.
But they do take a while to load / work. Where Pop_OS devs, can make it work faster or before other processes. If not the user should update as mandatory on newly installed iso.
That could help encourage people to use linux more, instead windows people treat a newly installed linux system as they do newly installed windows.
Some people actually use their windows systems as MS paint within 10 seconds of installation, that could be a potential bork on linux, that’s all im saying.
Pop_OS devs needs to make sure those two fine-lines of operating systems can intertwine. Which they have done a sublime job of, so far
Not making the update mandatory can make users do stuff on their newly installed system while it’s updating. That can bork it, without even the user knowing why.
Therefor respecting the installation and updating processes could / should be made more transparent. A pop-up, a small text, or even adding the information into the installer, could be a possible solution. As to make users know the importance of an installation or updating procedure on linux vs windows.
That’s absolutely not what I’m arguing, but I’ve got more valuable things to do with my time than argue with a default-profile-picture on the internet.
To be clear, my assertion is and always has been that the feature where dpkg will not allow multiple install/remove operations at once has worked for probably 20+ years and I see no reason for it to suddenly stop working for Linus.
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Not here to argue with u either. I’m trying to make something clear and that is that a newly installed operating system does not behave the same across platforms, especially with any linux distro.
That is not news to u, but it kind of is ‘news’ to windows users. If they believe that look & feel is the same as on windows, they are likely to also behave that way with a linux operating system.
Also another thing Pop_OS devs, could do. Is to add a sandboxed window, (Like they do for other things, browsers etc.) After first boot for example. That forces a mandatory update through, so it’s not possible to continue without first updating.
About dpkg never breaking? Yeah thaaaaaat you’re not going to make anyone believe. Especially not when there are one or more several gui’s built on top of it. Whether it’s a dependancy or not.
Unfortunately I think we all know where LTT is going to end up, which is they’ll come to the conclusion that while Linux does offer a superior general computing experience, the hassle required to do some relatively simple game related stuff on Linux makes it more trouble than is generally worth.
It’s kinda hard not to talk about the “community” again, but that will nuke the thread for sure, so I will simply state that maybe Linux should NOT be recommended to new users. At all. We all have seen this saga play out time and again, and I can’t help but think it would benefit SO MANY MORE people if the myth of Linux being super easy et all was just plain binned in favour of “well, if you’re a savvy user and you’re willing to learn an entirely new platform which is honestly not THAT user friendly and is still very much a DIY experience, then maybe.”
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My hope here is that the series can refocus developers of “noob friendly distros” to try to focus on stability and OOTB experience.
There were a few years where Linux had a great OOTBE but it seems to be slipping.
Maybe they’re having a harder time keeping up with the hardware.
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I think you may be correct on the hardware, but if we are SUPER HONEST, a massive chunk of the userbase is already offended by new users anyway, and the perceived “dumbing down” of what is very much their platform to accommodate people that they would be very content with staying on Windows. So I think it’s less that everybody is working towards a goal that keeps slipping away, and more of the fact that most hardcore Linux users DON’T WANT “noob friendly” anything. They want people to learn THEIR ways or stay off the platform.
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It could be a bit if this on the thunderbolt and various setups end but yes I think they really need to focus on noob friendly.
They don’t need to reduce the command line but they need a GUI for every command line action if you want to cater to normal folk
I hate those people
They are useless, ignorant and toxic
Elitism is the end of itself
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So do I, but we can’t ignore that THAT’S who new users are going to run into. Everywhere. Every distro. They ARE a large portion of the community, eg the amount of “you’re doing it wrong” Linus has already spoken about.
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Yes and its deeply unfortunate. The problem is you can’t speak to those people
You can’t even interface with them. Level with them. Come to a mutual understanding
They have their head so far up their ass they think shit smells normal
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