A brief intro. I live stream events. I am wanting to “up the game”, if you will. I am thinking NDI, my own custom wifi when I go somewhere built around speed.
We run multiple cameras and would like to add more. Some would not be able to be wired so we would more than likely have to do NDI wifi or the wireless video TX/RX back to the stream.
I am looking for a solution here that can allow my cameras to go into different areas of the events. or move more easily.
My thought is to make it more like a live broadcast rather than a stale event. I have even thought of adding a van with battery backup items in order to broadcast to a server in the van and then use mobile to stream from there. any ideas are welcome. I have been doing these events for a few years now and want to go to the next step and I am looking for something cool that can help me do that.
To give you an idea of what I am thinking, the new PC is going to be an AV1 capable machine so we can get the bandwidth down and still have great quality. (because I have streamed in someone’s field before)
o god…
Ok, so NDI is nice, its handy but its a long way from good.
WIFI NDI is terrible its not meant for that kind of infrastructure, its effectively send it and forget it, with no real error checking or reliability.
Lets start with a better understanding of your show and budget before we go locking into any idea of what is a start place.
FYI, I have been building, producing, designing, working live productions/events/sports for 20+ years now so I have seen some stuff.
some old highlights since im too lazy to go digging for newer creds.
Replying to my Reply…
How many Cameras or Sources do you want to cut between?
Does this event need “instant replay”?
Are you looking to do graphics over the broadcast?
Where are you streaming to, or is it to multiple platforms?
Are the events your producing Sports, or Sports adjacent like esports?
Just asking these questions because your focused on the last step in the chain which is distribution and infrastructure but the quality of your show starts with acquisition and you have said nothing about that yet.
So true. First off, those are some nice creds. Thanks for the assistance.
From the first reply. I know NDI is really only okay at most but that was the best example of what I want to do that I know. TX/RX wireless transmission systems are the newer thing I believe.
We are a low budget event option so we don’t have a ton. I would say I want to keep it under 5k if I can. knowing that I can build most of this and put together ideas and manage them better than an average streamer is where I believe I stand out just a bit. I already have PC, cameras, soundboard, Atem switcher. My thought is if I have to raise more money to make this grow further(be better) I will so I am option to options and tiers/ levels for more advanced workflow models.
We have 3 cameras currently where we run extension cords and HDMI back to our both where I connect to a UPS.
I would like to have replays.
we normally have sponsored videos we play during breaks but mostly it is just the camera feed and maybe some information on the screen.
Currently the stream goes to youtube but we have looked into multi-streams for some specific client needs.
It is live sports and sports like events. nothing esports.
I appreciate the detail and the responsiveness plus I understand the need to ask all this. I think I am focusing more on the infrastructure part because I have seen where some people manage streams and presentations offsite. I would like to be at level.
What Atem switcher?
I think some stuff is do able for 5k given some of your core gear, but NDI is probably not worth the investment. Its really a pro-sumer/corporate tool and I would not rely on it for anything beyond that.
The ONLY thing it adds over other streaming methods is a key channel for graphics, and thats only useful in a few key bits of software like OBS/Tricaster/Vmix.
I am guessing you fell into this gig and did not start out working on or with a professional company which is why your starting with things that you see and hear about on websites like B&H and streamers like Linus Tech Tips.
If you want you can keep going down that path, but I will let you know right now if this is something you really want to do like build an OB Sprinter Van (or equiv) for mobile productions, you are going to need to look at actual real broadcast gear, and the prices goes up a HUGE amount when you hit that point.
I dont say this to scare you, but rather to argue for making choices with that intent starting now, before you invest in a workflow and equipment that wont be compatible with the goal of doing competitive streaming and Outside Broadcast (OB) van work.
This is why I am here and I am thankful for people like you. I am not scared and ready to go down this rabbit hole.
It is first gen Atem Mini, so not high level production.
I did not start with another company so what I have so far is what I have learned off Youtube from a wide range of people. even to the point of video production people.
OB van is something I say again because it is the closest thing I have to the knowledge of what I need. Most of the events we have are in Hotels with kind of crappy wifi or worse try to charge you 1000 bucks to direct connect. That is why I was thinking OB van. that and the times we have seriously done streaming from a field and Mobile + a distant wifi router was the best we could do at the time.
When I say I want better and to do better I care about the work I do and the people that I take care of needing this service. Can you help me find the right resources and move my “local home town learning as I go” to “This is why you should choose me” ??
Crazy as it sounds you are probably actually part of my job description.
You are probably not yet my customer but if you get the professional market you probably would be.
Yes I would love to help as much as I can and we can do it here publiclly so other people can learn from it as i hate every time I watch Linus spend money on Black Magic Design equipment and thinking they are making smart choices.
BMD has its place, and is a great bridge into professional broadcast but its a long way from premium.
So things that generate value as a production like this are 4 core things.
- A story to tell, any production is really a story weather live or post produced the goal is the same. Tell the story between the main characters. Being able to crate that story with your equipment is the largest value you can add to any production. The problem will be that no one really wants to pay for it so you want to optimize your equipment to allow maximum time on story, and minimum time on setup/troubleshooting gear.
- With live events, acquisition is the name of the game, you cant tell the story without source material so having the ability to capture it happen and in real time is critical! Generally more cameras equals more better. The better the camera quality the more better the show. Garbage in Garbage out.
- Graphics are a story telling device, having good graphics that are dynamic, robust, and flexible are a key feature of live broadcasts.
- Replays are story telling devices, if having more cameras is better, having more replay angles is also more better! Like graphics you want a dynamic, robust, and flexible tool for replays.
I would suggest making your investments around enabling these 4 keys to a good show.
Keep using your current cameras, but your first big investment should be a quality camera or cameras with quality glass.
Directly after that is reliable infrastructure, namely cables. HDMI is a bad choice as its a consumer product. Its limited in distance to about 50’ and the cost goes up to get cables at that length. It also is not a locking connector, not field serviceable. I wont lie, I am oldschool. SDI works and it works really well I use it in my house for everything I can rather than networking cable. Depending on where you live there is probably a local broadcast systems integrator who can sell you their “scrap” cable from renovations or leftover from installs. This also lets you start a relationship with them which you will need because nearly all professional broadcast equipment cannot be purchased online. Nearly all of it is sold through dealer networks and is not available to the general public.
After Cameras, and good cable, next is your production switcher. The Atem is nice for entry level and small corporate gigs, but once your needing something reliable and effective then you need to move to something more professional.
I am again biased and thing the Ross Carbonite offers the best value as its a great entry level cost and software upgradable. There is a smaller version call the Carbonite Solo that offers Atem like production abilities but with hardware quality and actual technical support and service.
Something in the range of 10-25 inputs should fit most production needs at the mid level.
Graphics is a hell of a rabbit hole, the gear the pro’s use costs staggering money because it has to do everything in real time. There is “free” open source solutions as well as low cost solutions but frankly I would not bother with any low cost solution. You are better off staying with “free” and then going all the way to pro as soon as you can justify the cost.
Most graphics software and hardware starts around $50,000 and will require a yearly service contract. So I am going to list some to do research on and suggest some “free” ones. I would also strongly suggest you dont get trapped in this rabbit hole its easy to spend $5,000 on a PC to run graphics when you could have done it for $500 as long as your willing to spend time rather than money.
Pro level Graphics:
Note an Offline non realtime version of XPression is included with all Carbonite Switchers so you get it “Free” with your switcher. It can make professional quality graphics but wont render them in real time.
Chyron is the Kleenex or Xerox of graphics software, but they have been struggling for the last 15-20 years due to poor leadership and constantly trying to sell off the business.
Viz also makes Tricaster which is an ok All In One switcher, graphics, clip player but because its software and PC computer based it tends to have lots of software issues and is prone to crashing. The graphics software that comes with it, is not great and is in that low cost group where its not worth the investment in my opinion, your better off with freemium or pro.
Free(mium) level Graphics:
The last thing is instant replay, or as we used to call it in the yonder years, Tape. We used to call it tape because we would “Iso”(isolate) each camera to a professional VCR and we would record everything on that camera to tape. Replays were done using a replay controller that would connect to the VCR’s and rewind/playback/pause/slomo all from the controller.
This is an area where there are no “free” equivalent software solutions and you will eventually need to buy at minimum low end software, or dedicated hardware again in that $50,000+ range.
The lowest end option and one I would only suggest if you have no other choice is VMIX vMix Slow Motion Replay Software | vMix
While I dont think its a great investment this is one of the few areas where I think you can get by using software+DIY hardware to have a working solution while you build a client base and business. Its the last thing I would invest in, and the last I would upgrade to more professional solutions.
My 2nd choice https://www.vizrt.com/products/3play/ it suffers from the same issues as Tricaster, but because your show is not dependent on it, having it bug out, stop recording, or crash is not the end of the world.
In my opinion the best entry level value but professional solution is the MIRA Express.
Mira Express
It gives you a professional quality controller, on a hardware backed platform
The big boys, and the best are Evertz Dreamcatcher, and EVS but these are the $100,000 solutions. They are worth every penny but only once your competing to do division 1 football, or ESPN productions.
https://evs.com/products/live-production-servers/xt-go
so, this is a novella and only meant to promote more conversation as we dive into what you really want to do and really need to do it.
This is a great start on showing me where I can go and what level of clients I need to gather in order to get there.
Starting from the top lets take a few steps here and then break this out into a more personal chat (not sure how on that but I am sure we can figure it out)
We have 2 good cameras. The third is more consumer and not even pro-sumer like the other two.
They are Panasonic’s with SDI. I will have to hunt the model number down because they are not with me. They are similar to the HC-X20s. going for 4k 60 was the goal so we would have better cameras and then upgrade to a better switcher and better encoder later.
Do you have good camera recommendations for starters if I were to sell and repurchase?
Seeing that the cheaper of the switches is 1080 and out of the price range of my first thought of 5K maybe these are just too high of a production level at this time. Let’s chat more.
4k adds less quality than good lenses on a 720p camera. I would take a used 10 year old 720 Panasonic with quality fujinon or cannon glass over a brand new 4k camera with a stock lens any day.
So dont get hung up on 4k60 its not worth anything, and its not a selling point.
If your 2 Panasonic’s have SDI stick with them for now, because thats great, and if you dont have the budget for a new switcher, then stick with the ATEM.
You can get dirt cheap SDI to HDMI converters that let you run SDI cables everywhere and then convert at the last second to HDMI to get into your ATEM.
I totally understand that. I work in photography also and I completely agree. I have even thought of adding my Sony A7IV to the mix.
It’s also why ESPN is still in 720p in 2023(4).
Really!?!?! I did not know that. seems great when you upscale to 4k tvs though
because its all captured on $100,000 box lenses attached to $50,000 camera bodies.
People think resolution = quality, but more pixels is not the same thing as quality.
Just saying…
Hey there,
I have been working on using new tech/off the shelf parts to build a fully capable live streaming rig and what I have come up with so far is pretty impressive and capable when you factor in the costs to build it all out. The basic parts of the rig are -
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TP-Link 8 port PoE switch(AUD$90)
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Netgear 4G modem($150)
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1-6 Hikvision 1080p PoE cameras (PTZ are planned for the future)(AUD$130 each)
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Laptop with good enough specs running OBS studio(AUD$1500)
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Unifi Wifi AP (mine is up to wifi5, but the newer wifi6 units would work even better)(AUD$180)
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Network cables (AUD$100)
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Sound desk with USB(AUD$300)
I run out the fixed cameras around the event I am filming (normally live music) using ‘tough’ network cable and patch them into OBS using RTSP to VLC and then having OBS capture that frame(doing it this way gives a solid stable image) and I also use a service https://vdo.ninja/ which turns any phone into a roaming camera using a fixed URL. I can setup a QR code to instantly turn any phone camera into a roaming cam so audience participation and large crews of camera people is possible.
For drone footage I use Litchi(phone app) to control a DJI Mavic which sents a RTMP stream back to a RTMP server (a little VM running on the laptop) which gives a decent live feed from anhy DJI drone that supports the Litchi app,.
For audio I use a simple mackie proFX desk which has USB I/O but you can also pull audio from the roaming phones.
Once it is all back at OBS studio I add a 1.5 second delay to the audio which is what the RTSP layer introduces.
From there you can do all the OBS stuff, scrolling banners, news updates, etc etc.
The image quality from this setup is surprisingly impressive, even in low light(remember to turn off the CCTV cam IR!!)
But the best part about it is the costs, assuming you already have a laptop it is about $1000 to get you going and super cheap to add more cameras.
Hope this ways in someway helpful and not just the ramblings of a lunatic! 
Thanks. I see that and I am looking now. I have been working on a work around for replay and also adding cameras on the fly. like someone’s phone if we needed it.
That is a very interesting setup. I have thought about security cameras but because the sport moves fast I decided that these types of cameras probably couldn’t keep up.
I have been looking into mobile network bonding because I want to stream great quality and I think with the new AV1 I can do this with a lower bandwidth.