Apparently ESR is getting more popular in this parts of the interwebs again but nobody seems to read his blog or anything he said over the last 15 years or so.
And another thread about a "Plot to frame Open Source Leaders for Sexual Assault". A controversy lead by a climate change denying, racist, white-, US- supremacist, homophobic nutjob by quoting from an anonymous source on IRC.
This guy has not been relevant for 10 years now. Let's keep it this way.
I'm pretty sure you didn't read the blog posts I linked because you need more than 7 minutes to read all of that, which means you just dismissed my opinion without even trying to understand the rationale.
So freedom of speech exists. And some of those quotes are right on the money. Only one i had a problem with was the race one. Otherwise a solid guy that supports the community.
By the way, I don't even need credibility because everything was written by Eric S. Raymond on his personal blog. You don't have to trust me. It's on his fucking blog.
Did I say anywhere that he should not be allowed to say any of the things he said? Why do you even bring this up?
Which one exactly? The one in which he says that black people have a lower IQ? The one in which he says that AIDS doesn't exist? The one in which he says that socialist systems are always lying? The one in which he says that if you're for gun control you're too stupid to understand arguments and therefor have to be trolled? The one in which he says that Obama only won the election because he manipulated to votes? The one in which he says that homosexuals advocate pedophilia? The one in which he says that the US did a good job civilizing India and Japan? The one in which he says that it's the duty of all good Americans to support George W. Bush to destroy Islamofascism? The one in which he personally attacks someone on a mailing list who turns out to be completely right?
You cherry picked many quotes from over a long period to discredit him. And I assume you choose the one for gun rights because you felt it was just as bad.
The stuff about social healthcare wasn't far off. The ACORN scandal did happen along with many others with Obama. The way we have delt with radical Islam has been completely borked, commit completely to war or don't do it at all.
Saying "fuck this guy" shows where you want this thread to go. Nothing constructive will come from this.
You've joined 2 days ago, with a rather interesting name. And majority of your posts have been pretty hostile. So, either change the attitude you are putting out, or don't post. No need to start flame wars.
Yes socialist systems are lying. Petty much hits the nail on the head.
Okay⌠so if itâs not done by providing preventative care, how do countries with socialized medicine manage to provide healthcare to more people, with better outcomes, for a smaller per capita cost?
Gun control is just knee jerk emotional reactions that will not solve anything.
Besides this thread I posted in a thread about Tor, explaining how Tor works. That's hostile?
In this thread I was only hostile towards ESR (because people want to give him money and take things he say serious, which they should not).
Instead of being reasonable about this thread, the first comment completely dismisses my opinion without even reading anything of which I quoted and attacking me personally.
This guy repeats the exact same comment later, clearly wanting me to stop posting.
Then someone chimes in, accuses me of silencing people and of equating guns rights to racism.
I'm very reasonable with people who actually try to have a discussion like @greenwithao, but he's the only one in this thread who didn't attack me personally or is trying to flame me.
And now you tell me I'm hostile? What a fucking joke.
No it was reasonable, becuase this is essentially a shitpost on ESR. You can point out things he's said, you can critisize, but just blatant hatred for the guy isn't going to be a good conversational piece.
@Quixotic_Autocrat is correct. You pretty much made this into a one sided thread.
What happened in between? You seem very angry at ESR, is it because of his political views (which are broadly on the libertarian right) or because he was one of the founders of the Open Source movement which business embraced over the Free Software movement (which rightly or wrongly gets seen as a hippy fad by some).
First off, I only quoted his personal blog, so he's clearly discrediting himself. Also, there are no follow-ups which would indicate that he has changed his opinion on any of the topics. Another point is that the quotes are representative of the whole blog posts. You should read the whole posts to get a complete picture.
Ignoring the opinion on gun control, he argues that the other side is incapable of understanding the arguments for gun control, and this trolling them is a legitimate tactic. He literally advocates not discussing gun control because the other side is too stupid. This a completely foolish and retarded way of stopping any discussion.
I'd disagree on that. Actually pretty much anyone in academia disagrees with that. You can essentially pick any paper on the subject and find out that ESR is wrong here.
As true as this might be, the other side is caught manipulating elections much more often, yet ESR blames the winning on rigged elections.
So I'm only allowed to post opinions which are moderate, or which are not too far from this forums opinion? Why am I not allowed to say "Fuck this guy!" when I feel like I have a good point for doing so?
Like I said above, this is not about gun control, it's about how ESR handles different opinions and shutting down any discussion.
Actually, yes. This is completely unrelated. ESR specifically talks about homosexuals and their connection to pedophiles in this blog post.
I didn't say anything wrong here, I only quoted him. How can that be shitposting?
I feel like this is exactly what I'm doing here: criticizing ESR. If you feel like I'm in "blatant hatred" you're mistaken.
This obviously can be a good conversation but you guys have to stop saying that it can't and start discussing the topic.
Well, yeah, I'm obviously on the side "Fuck ESR". That's how discussions work, you can now star to argue that he is in fact a really nice guy.
Again, I'm not angry at him. I think he's a gun-wielding, rude, racist, homophobic nutjob. I'm glad he's not relevant anymore so I really don't have a reason to be angry at him. (Okay, I'm still a bit angry at ESR for coining the word Open Source which we're stuck with now, but that's something else entirely).
You, accuse ESR of being racist, yet add the fact that ESR is white in the middle of a string of what you perceive as insults; pot, meet kettle.
You are directing the reader to side with you rather than asking opinions on the subject by making these accusations from cherry picked statements, effectively polarizing ESR rather than admitting there may be shades of grey in his (full) arguments. Post was written in an combative tone from the start.
"white-, US- supremacist" is expanded to "white-supremacist, US-supremacist", the first one being a form of racism (look, there is a wiki article for it!), the second being the believe that the US is superior to every other country and should thus take control of the whole earth.
Maybe that clears up some of your confusion.
I stated my opinion. I don't have to write "In my opinion, âŚ", that's implied here, it's normal.
The accusation of cherry picking was addressed above.
This is only a "combative tone" if you think that ESR is a rational, nice guy. And if you think he's a rational, nice guy I want you to notice that my opinion is completely different, that there are arguments for seeing him as a racist nutjob, and I want you to try to understand that rationale.
This is called "having an argument".
Yes, like quoting what he says on his personal blog.
Convincing people that he's racist, homophobic, a notjob and generally a bad guy which nobody should be listened to, or taken serious.
