Hello everyone! I am 17 years old and have been following Tek Syndicate for a couple of years, and just joined the forum. I bought a $500 typical 12 year old kid PC 5 years ago from Best Buy (HP). I started making YouTube videos ever since, and mainly used the computer to play WoW and then to record my Xbox Gaming. 5 years later at 17, I want something that can render videos without risking of my computer sounding like it's going into hyperspeed, can play most games at medium-high settings (I'm not interested in maxing out in 4k or anything), and can support streaming PC games (which I know will be more intensive than the following), and streaming/recording my Xbox gameplay as before.
Budget: $600-$800 (Looking to build/purchase around March-ish, before College) Location: Ohio, United States of America Preferred Retailer?: There is a Microcenter in a nearby town, but ordering online is fine. Number of monitors: Currently 2, probably will expand to 3. Watercooling: I would need to learn how to go about maintenance, but willing to learn! OS: Currently Windows 10, would like to go with that once again. FPS Outlook: Smooth 60ish FPS at Medium-High Settings in WOW, CS, COD. Would like to be able to run other games such as Tomb Raider, Arma etc. as well (perhaps at lower settings if needed). Software: I use Sony Vegas and sometimes After Effects for videos, as well as OBS for Recording/Streaming. I render/record/stream at 720p 60fps currently.
I don't need monitors, headsets, keyboard, mouse etc. I think I have included good spec information, but let me know if there is something you wish to know!
There's a quick build I cobbled together to get the conversation started. Should be a solid upgrade over your current hardware.
It doesn't include a case because that's a personal preference. It also includes an AIO liquid-cooler but you could probably get similar thermal/noise levels from a tower style heatsink so that's also kind of a personal preference option. A water cooling solution that actually requires maintenance would blow the budget up.
There's also plenty of different CPU/GPU combinations that you could run, I'm sure someone will chime in with some alternatives.
So my build is on the higher end of your budget no doubt there. But I think it is well worth it. If it is too high. I would drop from a 390 to a 380, and perhaps cut some storage if you don't need more. Like @_ju1es said, you should pick your own case. Also extra cooling on a non K skew intel isn't needed, the stock cooler will do just fine.
For March/2016 purchase, I'd also look at a Skylake i3 vs. the aging FM2+ platform which is basically dead already. You'll have an upgrade path in the future if you go with a Skylake CPU + LGA 1151 motherboard now. Even though it costs more it does offer better value for your money and motherboards with newer features.
AMD's coming soon stuff, I'll try to explain it simply. Feel free to skip the stuff blurred if this is too much information for you.
As a start, I'll mention there will only be a single socket, AM4, for both future CPU and future APU..
First to arrive is the "Bristol Ridge" line of APU's. These have integrated graphics, just like what you have now. They're apparently coming in Q3/16. They will use the same "Excavator" core as the current line of Carrizo APU's use. They will be manufactured on the, now old, 28nm process. 28nm has been around since like 2011.
Second to arrive is the "Summit Ridge" line of CPU's. These do not have integrated graphics. They're, as far as I know, coming in Q4/16 or Q1/17. They will use the new core called "Zen". Much faster, so shiny. They will be manufactured on the new and current 14nm or 16nm FinFET process. Much better, so shiny.
Third to arrive is the "Raven Ridge" line of APU's. These have integrated graphics. They're as far as I know, coming sometime in 2017. They will use the new core called "Zen". Much faster, so shiny. They will be manufactured on the new and current 14nm or 16nm FinFET process. Much better, so shiny.
All these will be on the AM4 socket, which is basically saying what I already said at the top of the post, FM2+ or AM3+ is basically dead. You will have no upgrade path, unless you'd buy used parts. But even then, for FM2+ motherboard there's nothing better out there. Well sure there's the Athlon X4 845 which uses the Carrizo core aka Excavator but even then for the 5% you lose in clock speed compared to Athlon X4 860K you only gain up to 15% more in IPC (read performance), you'll also have 50% less L2 cache so it's not really a huge upgrade, more like a sidegrade if you ask me. And the 845 isn't a K SKU with unlocked multiplier so yeah...
Since you mentioned you stream/record with OBS, you can especially look at the Handbrake results, those are at the top of the Anandtech link. LQ film is DVD resolution and 4K is 4K. DVD (NTSC) resolution being 720x480 or 345k pixels and 4K is 3840x2160 or 8.29 million pixels. 1280x720 is 921k pixels. You can do the math which (LQ vs 4K) is better to compare against.
For reference, here is i3-4360 vs A6-3650 (= A6-3620 + 4-18%). There's not much data to look at because the A6 was reviewed so long ago that the benchmarks have changed significantly since then. http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1197?vs=403
And because you mentioned Tomb Raider and Arma (which Tomb Raider? and did you mean Arma III?). I'll show this, the chart is in polish but I believe numbers are an universal language? Bigger = better. Do note that the bolded i3 is overclocked i3, which is not possible anymore. Look at the i3-6100 which says 3700Mhz below it and has a dark gray bar. Graphics card used in this test was a GTX 980 Ti. (read among the fastest on the planet right now) See that FX-8350 in there second last? One of the fastest AMD CPU's you can buy now. And it was overclocked by almost 15%, the stock full turbo speed of it is 4100Mhz.
And here's x264 (OBS) iirc 1080p benchmark. See the FX-6300 in there, it's a six core AMD CPU with a hefty 23% overclock. Take it away and it lands somewhere around 55fps in that chart assuming perfect scaling with clockspeed. And take the two cores away and add the about 18% multi threaded improvement and you unscientifically got the x4 860K performance which is still slow.
Here's the full i3-6100 review, you can look at pretty graphs or use Google Translate. Or you can read whatever i3-6100 review you find on the internet, there's plenty around.
Rise of the Tomb Raider (the new one) doesn't really tax the CPU much from what I've heard. Where as the 2013 Tomb Raider does benefit somewhat from more cores. Going from an i3-3220 to i5-3470 (2x3.3Ghz>4x3.2Ghz) yielded about 15% higher average FPS in Techspot's article with a HD 7970 Ghz card.
Tends to happen with me, before I know it I've written a page or two worth of text. I could've just given my 2 cents but I prefer to try and give as much information as I can, that is relevant.
Well, those would be even better for streaming. Full quad core without hyper threading or the Xeon quad core with hyper threading instead of dual core + Hyper Threading.
The Xeon with HT would be good if you have lots of stuff running in the background while you're also gaming + streaming. What HT does is that it basically gives the processor the ability to juggle around double the amount of "threads" and have two things share one physical core. So while one thread is waiting for stuff or twiddling its fingers, the other one can execute.
HT typically tends to add up to around 30-35% more performance for multithreading workloads if all other things are equal. And in some cases it will only add 5-15% and some times it can slightly hurt the single threaded performance. Crazy right? But the pros far outweigh the cons of HT. Here's i5-4690 vs i7-4770K. Same clockspeeds/TDP but i7 has HT + 2MB more L3 cache. http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1198?vs=836
Intel's quad core + HT CPU's also have more L3 cache than their quad core CPU's without HT. Which means more stuff can be stored on the CPU. Read: L3 cache is insanely fast compared to your computers memory, which itself is also stupid fast compared to your SSD or hard drive. Here's an example of that, AIDA64 memory and cache benchmark on my system. Read speed of L3 is almost 10x that of the memory. Latency is also much lower, memory being 6x slower to access. You can see the effect off that in the above Anandtech link in the "3D particle movement - multithreaded", whopping 73% faster on the i7.
Also, if you're wondering how that Xeon E3-1231 V3 compares to other processors? It's basically an i7-4770K without overclocking ability, doesn't have integrated graphics and has 100Mhz lower clockspeed (really small difference).
So you can look at i7-4770K performance numbers if you're interested in the E3-1231 V3.
I'd just change the power supply in that i5-6500 setup. 2 bucks more for 80+ Gold efficiency, full modular cables and all japanese caps. http://pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-power-supply-220gs0550v1 Come on, this is 2016, why are we recommending 80+ Bronze and 80+ PSU's?
I appreciate the lengthiness, I am going to college to become a software developer, so anything that is really technical to imrove my well-roundedness in knowledge in the Technology field is awesome. I'm trying my best to understand.
Speaking of me trying to understand things. Could someone explain to me the significance of the power supply certification situation? I'm not sure what that means other than Gold is > Bronze/Silver. Also some people were afraid to choose a case. I'd be interested to know your favorites for a good sized case with room for upgrades, plus isn't going to completely break the bank. I've heard good things about the little brother of the 70D, forget if it's called the 40D (maybe?) or something else.
I am very happy with the refub GTX 770 they have on sale 169. Mine was 135 cause it was open box. Getting 40 off the cpu/mb combo wasn't bad either. For me it was worth the 2 hr drive to flippin Jersey to the MC. I got the 8320e with the asrock 970 pro 3. At the time there also a 15 dollar rebate which made the 10 bucks. I also got the 3 year protection on the MB only. Since the combo made the MB cheaper the plan was only 5 bucks and MB's seem to fail more then any other part. The PSU on my IBM 286 still works however my opinions on PSU's seem to start flame wars so I won't share them here. I actually trust the open box stuff more then the new. When the truck comes stuff goes to the shelf. When some noob returns something I assume it is tested and if it works it goes on sale. Really cheap if the noob doesn't return the packaging. Check out Best Buy. I have gotten stuff cheap there too.
Lagittaja had mentioned looking into Skylake i3, and going with a gold certified power supply. Is CPU mentioned in your part picker Skylake? I am not aware of what part of the name indicates "Skylake" etc. I'll probably go with the gold certified for the few extra bucks too. Also thoughts on that case? I like the simple look to it, but interested to hear other people's preferences.
Also, I would have to purchase the Windows 10 thumbstick and install that myself. From my limited PC knowledge, people generally install OS on the SSD for faster boot up times. What else would be best to put on the SSD vs the regular storage?
So, you don't mind receiving information? Well, okay then. Challenge accepted.
Skylake is the codename of the microarchitecture. That is the newest one right now for the mainstream processors from Intel.
What do the Intel processor names/numbers mean for Intel Core? For example Intel Core i7-6700K Intel Core = brand i7 = brand modifier 6 = generation indicator 700 = SKU numeric digits K = product line suffix, in this case K stands for unlocked. They are a little bit different for the Celeron and Pentium processors, they kind of lag behind in numbers compared to the Core processors..
Also the Xeon naming scheme is completely different, I'll add some info about that in the end of this post.
Here's a short history lesson for you, I'll just talk about the desktop side of things. Including mobile stuff would make this waaaaay too long.
I won't go further back in time, I think 2011-2016 is good enough.
Also, I might add that some of those above things are interchangeable.
That would be the socket. For example my motherboard has Z68 chipset, or in other words a chipset for Sandy Bridge. But my CPU is a Core i7-3770K, which is an Ivy Bridge processor.
Or you could have a Z77 motherboard, which is Ivy Bridge, but have a Core i5-2600K CPU, which is Sandy Bridge. But in those cases, Z77 for sure supports 2600K, because the chipset/motherboard is newer. BUT, an older chipset, or should I say the motherboard might not support a newer processor out of the box so it might need a BIOS update. For example, my motherboard, the Asus Maximus IV Gene-Z (Z68) received a BIOS update to support the newer Ivy Bridge CPU's.
Same goes for example to Z87/Z97 for Haswell/Broadwell. This is a bit more different. Haswell Core i7-4770K can work in Z87 or Z97 chipset. But the Broadwell Core i7-5775C can only work in Z97.
Regarding the update cycle and future things, like I mentioned about the upgrade path you would have with a Skylake system. Intel has been calling their, update rhythm or execution plan as Tick-Tock. Tick means same architecture but smaller manufacturing node. Tock means new architecture but the same manufacturing node. For example Sandy Bridge = tock. New microarchitecture at 32nm Ivy Bridge = tick. Smaller manufacturing node at 22nm Haswell = tock. New microarchitecture at 22nm Broadwell = tick. Smaller manufacturing node at 14nm Skylake = tock. New microarchitecture at 14nm
And here comes the kicker. Smaller manufacturing nodes are hard. Intel has delayed the next node shrink, the 10nm, by a year. So now we have tick-tock-tock instead of tick-tock-tick.
Kaby Lake = "semi-tock". "new" microarchitecture at 14nm Cannonlake = tick. smaller manufacturing node at 10nm.
Your Skylake system with, for example, H170 chipset, will more than likely be able to support the newer Kaby Lake CPU's, whatever will they be called, for example Core i7-7700K or Core i5-7500 and so on.
Quickly about the Xeon naming scheme. For example the Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 Intel Xeon = brand E3 = product line (E3, E5, E7) 1 = "Wayness", max number of CPU's on a motherboard (1, 2, 4, 8) 2 = socket type (2, 4, 6, 8) 31 = processor SKU (10, 20, 30, 31, 21 and so forth) V3 = version (v2, v3, v4 and so fort)
There's more to this and it's kind of a rabbit hole and too much information for you so I won't go more into it.
But you can find all of this information on Wikipedia for example.
Awesome, I like the simple more dumbed down response in addition to the specifics! So it is all about the upgrade path and compatibility with other things. So when choosing motherboard/CPU pairings, you have to look at the potential upgrades you would look to make, and make sure the motherboard supports that chipset. Interesting thing to take into consideration!
Exactly. Recommendations right now in time will be extra varied than normal. As with DDR4 becoming the mainstream but DDR3 systems being cheaper (sometimes). Everyone has their own opinion. For example I think anyone looking to build right now if they want intel should go with any skylake to get DDR4 and the new socket type. So should you want to grab a better CPU later in time, you can as you're already on the correct motherboard.. Anyone building AMD really should wait for Zen, which sucks, waiting blows.
So far, it looks like the build that Shadowvengence22 linked is my favorite. Really the only thing I changed was the power supply to one that is gold certified, and I really liked the case, nice and breathable.
