I do know, but it needs to be done right. Ubuntu is not ready, it is really far along, but it is not quite ready. When it is though, I think people will have no problem with not using windows and not think about it. I mean chromebook sales are doing really well right now even though windows isn't installed on them, the reason why is because they work really well for people's needs.
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Actually no, they won't. Remember all the crying and screaming whenever Microsoft themselves release a new version where the UI is just slightly different? People pretty much straight away see that it isn't windows. And they will say something like "this is not windows, I want windows". Been there, done that.
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If it does happen, the way I see it is Ubuntu first coming with low-end laptops where there won't be many gamers anyway. Wine should be able to run most of their applications by that point. As more people use it, developers start seeing it as a major platform and start developing for it more.
How is metro slightly different, they made the desktop a small part of you know, the desktop! Windows 10's UI has been very well received.
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to me lunix is a work horse not a gaming OS. until its click click done to install OS all drivers install all programs and not have to go through a huge ass list of everything ever put out on that distro's download center. or when you search for something as simple as video driver i dont want 600 packages i want it to detect what i have,then make a list off of that. the recent auto dependency is a start but a little a lot late.
id rant on windows 10 and osx but i refuse to even run them in my house. hell i barely put up with 8.1 in my house on 1 laptop only and ever. windows 10 lasted all of 2 days before i called it quits and nuked it for all of my hardware and wrote 0s to the drive to make sure it was gone.
Win95 to XP, XP ti Win7. Etc. People still talk about XP like it was some amazing thing, a pretty crappy OS that was better than Win95/98/Me but not much more than that.
I appreciate your optimism and enthusiasm, come back in a handful of years when you have a couple of defunct companies behind you and most of your hope and dreams have been crushed to dust by cold hard reality. I hate to be cynical, but selling Linux to ordinary windows users and thinking it will work is not a great idea. it will fail as it has been failing for ~20 years. Give it another 20 years and maybe we're talking then.
Wow, why do assume my companies will fail because I disagree with you? Anyway, you aren't responding to my arguments, I haven't heard many people saying how wonderful XP is, and if there is a large amount of people that do. Find some generalizations about them, and make a computer with an XP-like DE targeted towards that market. Also, about it failing for ~20 years, we have actually made a lot of progress of switching windows server users. Some people have been trying to get it on the desktop, but some people think the best way to get on the desktop is to wait until we have an OS that windows users will like, and that will run most windows programs easily.
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We're also trying to call it a "gamer" os when there really isn't such a thing. "gamer" anything could be as retarded as a sticker on a bucket from razer. Unless it's a console I don't really think there will ever be a gamer OS.
Now people can have their preferences surely. I prefer linux for just about everything. Windows may have more games, but it's not always the best choice. What about OSX? What about BSD? AROS? Honestly if we're going to have to ask about linux then we have to ask about everything else. It's a stupid question. If anything we would call windows XP a gamer OS because it didn't have all this crazy shit tied into it. Like linux, you built it to what you wanted to do with it.
In short, yes, gamers can and will use linux. Is it a gaming OS? No, but neither is anything else.
Companies fail all the time, it's by design. Most people who have really tried usually have some defunct companies in their history. That's not usually a bad thing mind you. It only becomes a bad thing if someone tries to do the same thing over and over, the same thing that keeps failing. Like, for example, trying to sell Linux as a desktop OS. There are exactly zero companies that turn a profit doing that. RedHat hasn't been a profitable server OS provider for very long, they use to bleed money every year and only people with deep pockes happy to throw money into that furnace kept it running. And thousands of people donating their time for free of course.
Servers are a very different thing and Linux rules the server halls pretty much. Not completely, but pretty much.
And I'm not sure I want a Linux Desktop OS that Windows users will like. 'cause it will be like windows and there is much I dislike with windows.
Has been done. Failed. You keep repeating something that just isn't in our reality. It hasn't worked for 20 years. Why would the the same thing today suddenly work? What will you do when users ask where their iTunes app is? Tell them to use something else? 'cause that has failed time and time again. Crossover Office is a testament to that, people want Ms Office, not OpenOffice, nor Libre Office. MS Office or will not use your Linux Desktop, so you'd better support it.
Look at how long Adobe Flash has disgraced our web browsers. It took a company like Google to finally make something happen. An Insecure resource hog of a proprietary webb-thing that still is a problem. When will Twitch be HTML5 again? YouTube is still often problematic when trying to use HTML5 in various browsers on various Linux dists. Change take a long time, and a lot of work.
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In reality you have about 3-6 choices.
Ubuntu, Fedora, openSUSE, Debian. There's no need to look at any others for the average user.
This is definitely true, but you still have to learn the GUI. The command line is promoted on Linux because its so useful and powerful, Microsoft have seen this recently and have been moving to introduce more and more powerful CLI options. The fact is that just like Linux, you cant do everything in the GUI on windows. In fact its even more true with Windows 10.
You will never see this, a GUI that does 95% of the OS functions simply doesnt exist in any OS, you simply cannot reproduce everything that's possible on the command line through the GUI.
FYI, you'd probably like gnome, its well integrated, functions well. The next GNOME release with Fedora 24 will include seamless updating to new OS versions through the GUI, GUI package management has improved with every release, and theres even firmware updating integration (though manufacturer support is still early)
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Just to rephrase the wording, Red Hat has been very profitable for years and years.
It shows how well things stick regardless of how good or bad they are, Windows is the same, far more so i think. Its shipped by default, for gaming (forgetting any other issues) its a fairly decent platform. So its not going anywhere yet.
Oh I remember hating the terminal, but I got used to it because using it is easier and faster than using synaptic and typing in the name of the package I needed into synaptic to search for it in order to install it from a gui. You might as well be typing three extra words before it.
Yes now they are, and I'm happy for them. They used to lose money every year though before that, I remember. Was it 2012 they broke 1 Billion in revenues? A far cry from back in 1999 when they had revenues in the tens of millions. We need more companies like RedHat. I firmly believe that for many of the bigger and complicated software projects, proprietary software is doomed to fail. Just can't compete with the community driven open source model that is just so much faster and agile. So many companies that just never updates their shit. And they want to be paid for every little thing. People have already started to say no. How's the saying, a n Oak tree grows for a hundred years, prospers for a hundreds years, and then dies for a hundred years. I just wish some things would die faster.
Kinda my point? Getting ordinary people unstuck from windows will take a long time and be a lot of work. We are not there yet.
My biggest gripe with Linux gaming today is that many games on Linux require the proprietary driver form AMD/Nvidia. Sure, with Nv you pretty much have no choice, but the open AMD driver is getting there. It's just that many ports to Linux is just that, a lazy port that wants that horrible ugly hack of a windows driver on Linux.
Will it change with Vulkan? I'm cautiously optimistic, there is a real possibility for change.
OS's that do not use command line and the OS did work was Mac OS 6 to OS 9. To the best of my knowledge that generation of OS did not use a terminal commands and if they did I found that I could do all the things i wanted with out them. I never needed to us terminal commands in Windows 95 98 and XP.
Yes terminal commands are very powerful and useful and should be use.
What I am asking for is a version of Linux that I would only have to use the terminal to do major fixes.
It comes down to this I do not want to work at my OS my OS should do the work, I want to run games Internet and every other program. I want my OS to sit there and when I click on something with my mouse it will run program install program delete program. The key words here is click with mouse. My keyboard is there so I can type messages to people. There is no need for me to type message to my OS.
Again Linux users what to tell me what I am missing and I keep say I have used terminal I have used different versions of Linux over the years and I have asked on forums for the best version of Linux for what i want it to do and there sits terminal.
Wendell will never give up his Model M keyboard and I will not give up looking for a version of Linux geared to people who like clicking with a mouse to get things done.
I respect the people that use Linux with terminal commands, I wish my brain could work that way it does not, It could be that my brain will never work that way. When I used DOS i had to have a book there to look up commands and I would look up the same commands all the time the info never stayed I my head.
Have a day
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I agree. I think 3D processing will become virtualized in the future and we can start seeing open source performance that is platform independant and even in virtual machines and close to bare metal.
The thing with linux is it keeps taking baby steps and its all free. Microsoft has to keep making a technology to profit on while linux just keeps stepping forward building on itself.
VR is also another issue. Both Vive and Oculus said Linux support and both have flipped too it's coming. I hate when that happens. Not that I am a fan of VR yet. I will wait for 3rd or 4th gen VR myself.
Windows games had a lot of command line options. If you wanted to cheat in Deus Ex, you had to run DeusEx.exe from the command line with the -hax0r flag and even then, it just gave you another command line and hell, you still need to use the command line to cheat in Bethesda games.
I thought that way too and it was an uphill battle for me. Up until age 20, I never used a Command Line and I hated it, but I got used to it. You might be like me, I have a really hard time trying to grasp foreign concepts, but once I get it, I can't un-get it. It's like riding a bike and I didn't know how to ride a bike until around age 15.
Did you try writing them down? Seriously, even if you write something down and never read it again, it helps with memory retention. I have similar memory issues as well.
What is it about linux that doesn't work out of the box? The only linux command you need sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras and that's just because of codecs that violate software patent laws, so they can't legally include it in a distro in every country, but like I said, there's synaptic you can install from the gui and you can use that to search for restricted extras.
Yes I have tried tricks to remember commands they do not work. I will break this down for you so you understand. I do not like posting my personal problems for everyone to see but for you I will tell you.
1 dyslexia found out when i was in grade 2
2 horse kicked me in the back of the head
3 hockey puck from a slap shot to the back of the head
4 baseball bat to front of head
5 tumor in head that has given me some really fun things ( not cancer ) was not treated for 20 years cuz crap doctors that i saw.
This is some of the things that effect how I think and remember
So when i say I need to see pictures and click with a mouse I am not saying this cuz I am someone who has not tried. Not everyone in this world has your problems or mine And these are but a few of min and I live with them and I get by just find.
So do you understand now that when I have learned the only way I will remember how to get around an OS is throu seeing the nice GUI and using the mouse that I have not tried everything in my power to not feel like a retard when it comes to remembering linux commands.
You do not know me or my life and thats just fine with me.
What you do have to learn is this when someone tells you that they have a reason for why they want something maybe its cuz they are so messed up dealing with something other people find easy just makes them mad cuz they do not wish to tell you there lifes problems for you to understand.
I am telling you this not for an sympathy cuz that will not get me anything.
I am telling you this so you read what people are telling you and not to tell them back that they are not trying to live with what you think is right. I know what works for me and I stated that.
Have a day
Now lets get back to find out how to make linux better for everyone and have an open mind about how to do that.
Cuz I want to get rid of windows and game on linux so lets have one of the many build one for the messed up people of the world.
Sorry a just little pissed about hearing the same thing just use terminal it is easy. And I would really like to see Linux get better.
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Can Linux take over as a gaming platform?
Short answer is YES, or at least Steam seems to think so. Also remember I think Sony's playstation OS is also a linux based system (not 100% sure)
Linux Pros:
1. Linux development tools for all types of game related stuff from 3D art work to video rendering, and programming are top notch. With the combination of programming tools and compilers, and applications like blender and also audio applications, linux provides the capability of producing very high quality games so theres no reason why developers would not want to create games for linux.
- Linux natively supports direct hardware interfacing, which in simple terms means that the way the linux kernel interacts with hardware it does not need elaborate driver support such as windows which has often used a shell based interface with a hardware and software layer. What this means for games and developers is that Linux should in theory be easier to develop for as programmers would have direct access to the hardware, assuming the API's they use allow them to interface with it in the code.
An example of a supported API for games development in Linux is the Unreal Engine, I believe you can get it free and use it to make fully fledged games of your own within a linux environment, the only catch to using the unreal engine is if you make money from selling your game then the creators of the unreal engine will take around 5% of the profits which honestly is quite fair when you consider how great their technology is to develop on.
Linux Cons:
DirectX, MS has dominated the games landscape for windows based on directx technology for a very long time, but Vulkan may change the dynamics of that dominance.
Cultural awareness, users of linux know how much amazing stuff is packed into modern linux distros there is a lot of great software and nearly all of it is for free. Mainstream users sadly do not adapt to things they are unfamiliar with, so you get a lot of societal windows fanboys which leads to irony in the sense that most of these people will happily use windows claiming its easy without ever seeing how nice linux is compared to it, but they will also use iphones and android devices that are based on *Nix,
I remember one of my clients who was running an old cracked version of windows xp on her machine until one day it just stopped, she panic like crazy about her computer being down so I said for a fee I will repair it, she said she could not afford an upgrade of any sort including the OS, so I offered up a ubuntu installation to replace her busted xp, I believe it was ubuntu 9 at the time, anyway I setup all the apps so that she could be productive, web browsers, pdf viewers and even an office alternative and I even sat with her for 3 hours an showed her how to use these apps as easily as she would on windows... 2 days later she begged me to come back remove linux and put xp back on the machine.. This story goes to show that for most people their lack of adoption to linux is due to sheer laziness and not wanting to learn something slightly different.
Windows created a culture (and potentially dumbed down the masses too, the whole ' I want to click on an icon and things will automagically happen'), and presented it to the majority of people with some sense of consistency over the years (and these masses were happy to accept that), and whilst certain Linux distros offer far more capability and scale-ability than any windows versions ever did, in order to influence the wider public to use linux as a desktop solution depends on standardization of the platform.
From a commercial point of view for game developers a more standardized and fully supported model for linux would be a welcomed sign, whilst they may have brilliant linux tools to make games on, driver support from vendors 'especially AMD' is lacking for many different flavors of linux, Nvidia has done a better job of supporting linux from its drivers over the years, but all of this needs to boil down to a standard... DX12 remains the reigning champion of API's for 3D engines only to be dethroned by something better if the industry develops it and Vulkan is the front runner I think.
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I take your comment to mean that you don't count Android as Linux. Interesting. I don't have any particular stake in one definition or another, but yours does seem to put you at odds with Stephen J. Vaughan-Nichols, Bryan Lunduke, and Linus Torvalds, among others. So, by "linux" in your question, what precisely do you mean? A fully FOSS, desktop-centered OS with the Linux kernel / GNU utilities / Xorg? x86 only? Would you count Chromium OS? Steam OS? Raspbian? Not trying to provoke you, I'm just legitimately curious, and your definition of Linux will certainly bear upon whether it can "take over" as a gaming OS.
My personal opinion is that a corporatized version of Linux--such as Android, Chrome OS, or something analogous (perhaps even from Microsoft)--does have a real shot at taking over. Actually, I would go so far as to say it's nearly inevitable. Certainly not this year, or probably even this decade, but I'm convinced it will happen. Windows won't be king of the hill forever, and whatever replaces it--and whether the future of mainstream gaming is on the desktop, in the living room, or on mobile--will very likely be based on Linux. But, sadly, I just don't see one of the traditional, more open distros such as Ubuntu, Fedora, or OpenSUSE getting there without some fundamental changes. Last year, Android devices outsold Windows devices 4 to 1, and Chrome OS machines outsold Macs. Those are not easy numbers to discount, and many signs point to Google merging the two systems in the near future.
While you are surely technically correct, I'm with @RissViss that the attitude toward the CLI needs to change in order for Linux to "take over." I suspect that many of us here on the forum love the CLI, and what's more, that we would also be fine with Linux not taking over, but if Linux is to ever become the premier gaming OS, I'm convinced that it's GUI or bust.
I'd be willing to bet that at least 99% of iOS users have never touched the CLI. Maybe more like 99.99%. Somewhat less for Android, but not much. Same goes for every OS on every game console that has ever found mainstream success.
As my posts show, I am thinking more and more about Chrome OS/Chromium OS lately. I've tried for years to switch my non-techie friends and family over to Linux distros for years, and while I've had some success, I think it was only possible because I or someone else was able to provide technical support to them when they needed it. Chromium OS is the first time where I never get any calls, and I attribute at least part of this to the absolute priority of the GUI in the user design. Some of it also goes back to what you were referring to as "everything that's possible" on a computer. We still live in an era where much of what is possible is still mediated by the interactions between the user and the machine, which is where the CLI will always rule, as you say, but as consumers move into the cloud, more and more what is possible will be mediated by interactions between the user and the Internet, where the GUI at least has a decent chance of edging out the CLI. I'm certainly no Google fanboy, but at least in principle, this approach may be the way forward.
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