It’s not really going to be a proper replacement for X until its more well behaved on nvidia hardware. I went back to X11 on Debian12 for that reason. Wayland lost its mind when first getting things set up, but then seemed fine for a few weeks until I was abruptly creating modern art exhibits on the monitor again. I hate to be someone who complains about bugs without doing anything to help fix them, but I’m more interested in using this machine than I am tinkering with it, so I just went back to X.
I’m still using it in a few VMs though, and it seems fine there.
I am X11/Wayland agnostic. The only difference I noticed is that lost the ability to use proper global hotkey for Guake Terminal and autotype for my password manager. But Wayland takes and gives. I can now use swipe gestures natively on Wayland GNOME.
I still think Wayland is better because all the X11 devs said so as they jumped ship.
wayland is driven by security nuts and security nuts make everything worse, everything is a security risk and it has resulted in severe feature regressions (e.g. screen recording, self-positioning of windows, to name a few) that the UI frameworks have to then now duplicate that effort to catch up to where we already were
I’ve been using wayland full-time since ~2018, primarily to solve mixed-resolution between displays and deal with screen-tearing once and for all. I don’t ever see myself going back to X11, but I’ve had to do a lot of problem solving over the years.
I think the question of whether someone should move to wayland solely depends on what applications they use. If it supports wayland, they’ll have a great time… if it doesn’t, well then they’ll probably be fine? XWayland is pretty damn good.
But yeah, some things are just broken (accessibility) or not fully supported (nvidia)… but, it’s “new” and desktop linux is complicated, fragmented, and designed by committees.
fwiw - I use sway (i3 beforehand) and spend most of my time in a terminal or a browser. Most jank I’ve come across was fixed by setting/unsetting environment variables and in general, I’ve had more success with QT than GTK.
I ended up needing wayland due to the multi-monitor setup I have with varied refresh rates. That being said, the hardware’s requirements has started shaping my software use (gnome->kde for hdr support, x11->wayland for the mixed refresh rates) despite my preferences in DEs or distros. But I’ve only been daily driving linux for ~11 months or so, and 95% of that time has been spent on amdgpu or intel igpu systems. If there are teething issues, I either haven’t noticed them yet or they’ve fallen into the ‘well, it’s linux, i’m learning’ hole where this is just ‘normal’ behavior.
it breaks my heart we’ve gone back to 2008 linux where we’re all arguing about the basic features available in all other platforms, it could have been so much better
To be fair, X has stuck around forever because it’s a huge pain in the ass to try replacing it, not because there just wasn’t much more that needed to be done on it. I don’t know the reasoning behind why some things got implemented before some others, but overall it seems like the Wayland people are(mostly) headed in the right direction.
i get that replacing a graphic server isn’t a walk in the park, but why did they have to muddy it with all these threat models and security decisions that makes it worse to use for the user?
Seriously. Its not wayland thats the problem, its nvidia refusing to play ball with the linux way of doing things.
Theyre getting better by open sourcing some of their driver, but they need to finish the job and integrate with mesa like every other gpu driver out there.
Wayland is wonderful on AMD with a single exception: Discord. But thats just yet another example of a proprietary program using outdated libraries.
No one wanted the waters to be muddied and yet this is the world we live in where hackers are now monetarily invested in seeking people to pwn and steal credentials.
One way to do it is via screen recording and at least I can respect that wayland seeks to be not the laughing stock when it comes to security. But in some cases people see them as such anyway.
The way how I see it, the scenario is similar to how IT will enforce password requirements but will not offer password manager solutions or guides to getting one setup.
I also have a 144 hz monitor + 2 60hz monitors. I haven’t noticed these issues on x11, but I just use my Linux desktop for general web browsing/productivity. Might be different when I have to ditch win 10.
Also a good documentary on the history of X11
Yeah I think if the wayland devs focused on compatibility it would have reduced the backlash
Oh yeah they suck. I have to run it from a browser
Never had display issues in my Fedora system as both have AMD GPUs in them. I have a Fedora laptop with Nvidia GPU and while its ok for the most part, updating makes me a bit nervous as it had borked on two updates.
this world has existed for a very long time, and nobody else implements these silly restrictions on what people can do in their desktops on a daily basis
it’s about preventing access to a machine rather than what happens when they’re in
I can’t draw the correlations in my head between this made up scenario and not having a program be able to remember it’s window position
it’s stuff like this that drives me nuts trying to explain to security idiots that restrictions like this will cause people to work around them, thereby increasing attack surface or not use it at all
in the case of Linux distro are aggressively removing X which is their prerogative and my point is, it didn’t have to be as broken and janky as it is
let me share my fucking screen without all the bullshit, also the fancyzone stuff in plasma 6.1 is mad but yet again, Wayland makes it shit