Chinese fabless semiconductor startup Numemory is developing storage-class memory (SCM) chips using Optane-like phase change memory and crossbar technology.
5 × endurance compared to (presumably SLC) NAND sounds around the ballpark of Optane’s advertised performance, though I don’t know if 10 × read/write speeds can also be attributed to Optane. Optane was never that great at sequential I/O.
They claim great latency as well, but provided neither latency nor IOPS figures which is sus.
But they’ve seem to have also put in a lot of work in R&D and patents, so that can’t be that far off from showing something off within the next couple years.
From what I’ve heard, SK hynix is much further along with the technology, they’ve graduated from PCM to SSM for their cross-point portfolio.
The fact that numemory is fabless makes me think they are not in a position to ever scale the memory density to become profitable; there are materials required to make cross-point memory viable that I doubt a contract foundry would ever develop themselves.
I’m wondering if they’ve figured out how to create an Optane-like product without the Optane-like special fabrication. My understanding of the Optane failure was Intel’s production volume never reaching critical mass and they got tired of subsidizing it for years.
I reckon a considerably different approach will be needed this time around. Starting with not repeating Intel’s DUMB marketecture mistakes such as chipset vendor lock-in, whack-a-doodle PCIe connections, gimped products that only use 1 or 2 PCIe lanes (H10, M10, 800P I’m looking at you)…
The product is about memory, replacing or supplementing DRAM, so being basically indestructible is necessary. You don’t want your RAM to wear down and bits starting to fail.
If you sell every PMEM with a loss and there is no larger market paying a hefty premium while the competition (NAND) gets better every year, eroding most advantages 3D-XPoint had, it’s a desperate situation.
We now have 60TB NAND devices with 200+PBW values and vastly better latencies than 5 years ago as well as CXL memory devices. The market isn’t really developing in Optane’s favor.
I’m all for new kinds of memory. Especially if it can merge memory and storage and finally get rid of the latter all together.
I doubt people want to pay the price. DRAM is the fastest we have and NAND is pretty fast, faster than most software and even other hardware can handle…and dirt cheap in comparison.
fabless startup…I wish them luck to find the key to economically viable manufacturing. We need options. And we need technologies rocking the boat.
2nd gen Optane was 256Gb package density, and they did this in only 4 layers while Numemory is using significantly layers more for less density.
This might not sound like a big deal at first but PCM requires that you heat the cells up into the thousand degree range to program them. Low planar density means the thing is going to use an insane amount of power to achieve the program temperatures at any reasonable transfer speed.
closest i have seen is - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS123SVIGfY , the 800gb version goes for 1250 usd , incase anyone interested , can only buy directly from them . yes i contacted them directly asking where to buy it .
same sentiment here , also the reason why i didn’t bother buying myself . but someone have to push progress . let them create competition , its better ,
I totally understand your perspective, especially with the current administration in the U.S., but at least the U.S. doesn’t have a history of that kind of industrial espionage, theft of IP and blackmail for espionage purposes.
Good luck finding non-US designed alternatives for many categories of products though
I would not go there. This kind of claim always invites an exchange where supporters from each side dig into the moral/ethical failings of the other. Do you dare say that the U.S. has nothing worthy of a comparable magnitude of damnation?
“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” — Animal Farm, George Orwell
At the risk of going further down the rabbit hole, I think the biggest and most unassailable difference one could point to with regards to privacy/security between the only two countries that have a mostly full technology stack is that one country has the social grid system and the other doesn’t.
I don’t think most in western countries have any idea how ingrained and pervasive this system is.
Sorry. I don’t want to pull this thread any more off topic than it has already gone, but I can’t just ignore this.
The U.S. is by no means perfect, I am well aware of that. But if I had to choose between a system that at least still has an inkling of democracy and rule of law left vs one that is an authoritarian single-party hell hole with dystopian Orwellian (on steroids) undertones, that choice is extremely simple.
There simply is no comparison.
There is only one legitimate form of governance, and that is the liberal democracy. Anyone who dare defend the government of the PRC or its form of governance should be shunned in polite company.
Trump on his worst day (and he has some pretty bad days) is still orders of magnitude more legitimate of a political leader than Xi Jinping, because he was chosen by the people.
China is a great country with a great and proud history and culture, but unless or until its form of governance changes to where all power originates from the people, absolutely everything there should be viewed with suspicion. The current regime should never be given a legitimate seat at the table. It is a table of democracy and international cooperation, and they simply do not belong there. They can take their seat at the table of dictatorship and oppression along with Russia, North Korea, Iran and other pariah states.
Exactly.
Let this be reason number 8,762 as to why the PRC and their government and industry cannot be trusted.
With hindsight being 20/20, I tend to think the world would be a better place today if the Nixon administration had not normalized relations with China. It set in motion a series of events that threatens the only just international order - namely that of liberal democracies - now in the 21st century.
Without the PRC being opened up to the west, maybe its hateful authoritarian state would have collapsed under it’s own weight, just like what thankfully happened to the Soviet Union in 1991, and maybe it could have led to a free and open society in China where power originates from the people. That China could have been welcomed onto the international stage as a partner.
And don’t get me wrong. I know the Soviet Union and 1991 are not the best example, as things went sideways there in a hurry with Putin seizing power and replacing authoritarian Communist party rule with an authoritarian kleptocracy by the oligarchy, under the guise of a faux-democracy. That is a failure the west is partially to blame for.
When Nazi Germany was defeated in 1945 it was realized that both our Allies and our defeated foes in Europe would need assistance in order to establish a normalization of liberal democratic norms. Too much hardship would just result in a repeat of what happened in the inter-war period, with extremism and authoritarianism returning.
The west should have realized that Russia would need the same after the collapse of the Soviet Union. That was a true lost opportunity of the 90’s. All of the NATO allies were so eager to reap the benefits of peace dividends due to the end of the Cold War that they were blinded to what it would take for Russia to become a true liberal democratic partner in the world. If NATO allies had redirected the defense spending savings towards a form of Marshall plan for Russia in 1991, maybe for 5-10 years, the world might be a very different and better place today.
