12v3 connector instead of 12v2? What's with the epoxy? (speculation)

I’ve got a review coming up of the MSI EdgeXpert WS300 – an Nvidia DGX Station from MSI. But I noticed when I was adding an RTX Pro 6000 GPU that the GPU power connector is a little different. It’s labeled both 12v2 and 12v3. What do you make of the change?

It looked to me like the voids around the wires on the back of the connector were filled with some type of epoxy resin to stop the wires from moving around and keep them more well-centered in the power connector.

We did a YouTube Short™ about it so check it out!

Isn’t Nvidia planning to to jump from 12v to 48v to power gpu’s while reusing the 12v2 connector?
Could be a attempt to make sparks less prone to jump.

But a propper fix on the disaster connector might make a lot of people happy.

Now thinking about it epoxy could be even bigger issue if the connector gets hot.
Epoxy is a good insulator for electricity and heat.
Well lets hope it’s fully tested and nothing will happen.

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At this point they just need do a full redesign. The constant band-aids aren’t really helping. I’m not material scientist/engineer, but I would not be shocked to hear reports of epoxy leaking out.

They’d be better off figuring out how to use mica (Mica - Wikipedia) which is already used for capacitors. I’m not 100% on how possible it would be stamp this out for a connector, but I think it’d be possible and likely usable solution since this intended for a connector with a pretty low insertion/removal rating.

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The epoxy is already pre cured, it won’t melt out as it fully plastic now.
Thad’s why I’m worried they encased the connectors which get hot in a extra layer of plastic.
So I pray for the next guy getting one some validation has been done.

But this is running thema in the IT, it’s called the sunken costs fallacy I believe.
So much effort has been put in the implementation and updating the PCI-sig is probably to invested to let it go.
No to mention Nvidia is also part of the pci-sig board, so they will also lobby for it’s continuation

About the mica it’s a nice idea, but mica have been around in electronics for longer than I’m alive.
The reason they stopped using it was because it’s to brittle.
I wonder if a 12vhpwr connector wil be functional in mica.
The channels holding the electrical contacts are so small I think mica will just break.
And my guess is it will break when plugging in.
Thad’s why the current connectors are made of glasfiber reinforced Nylon.
If we want something more heat resistant we need to use Polyketone.

But getting a more heat resistant connector will not solve it.
Contacts Inside de plug end are just way to small for the amounts of current it has to endure.
The resulting heat is the biggest killer, because as soon as the contacts in the connector get to hot you risk a thermal runway.
Because when the copper contacts heat up they get more resistance generating more heat and 10 minutes later the PC is on fire.

This entire shitshow could have been prevented if the 12v2pwr connectors ware like 2mm larger.
Or if Nvidia could be arsed to just put 2 of the damm connector on a cards.

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Extra fuel so that when they do go up in flames there is no evidence left.

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The case is what interests me (which is no great surprise for anyone who has seen the thread). The case appears to be a custom version of Silverstone’s CS383. There are some interesting changes to the case. One of which is kind of a head scratcher for me.

The front panel is the most significant difference, which apparently has also meant that the front I/O has been relocated to the top panel. I’m guessing this change was to facilitate maximum airflow from the front intake. Indeed if you look at the WS300T60L manual, there is a 3/4 image of the front of the case, which lets you see through the front mesh. It appears that the CS383’s 5.25" bays are now completely unobstructed. Both in terms of the plastic bezel, and the apparent removal of the vertical 5.25" bays support walls.

Internally the most obvious change is that the interior is gray, where as the CS383’s is painted black. I’d actually prefer the gray because I like the retro feel. The PSU shroud has three cable management loops… at least in the manual, which uses product images that differ to what Wendell has (which has two horizontal pillars with screws inserted into them). The MSI’s shroud is also closed / vented at the end. A second PSU can be installed in the front of the CS383 where as the MSI model uses said space for the water cooling gubbins.

The GPU support bracket is another area in which the images in the manual differ to the case that Wendell has. In the manual, the bracket looks the same as the one used by the CS383 but the one in Wendell’s images has just a single slot at the bottom, rather than multiple, staggered slots, extending the entire height of the bracket. The CS383’s bracket also bends at a right angle at the bottom and rests on top of, and is screwed into, the top of the PSU shroud. The MSI model appears to be just screwed into the side. Which in all honesty, would probably make it less of a hassle to remove (depending on whether the MSI’s top panel can just be pulled of like the CS383’s).

It also looks like the motherboard tray extends the full depth of the case. Albeit with venting to allow for an intake from the motherboard side panel. I did wonder why they didn’t do this in the CS383, and integrate the 5.25" mounting into a single sheet of metal but I digress.

Moving round to the rear of the case. At the top, you can see what MSI calls a “System Handle” has been added to the case… man, do I wish my CS383 had one of those. Because it’s a heavy old lump once it has components inside. Even without disks! The rear is also where the biggest head scratcher of a change for me is. The rear fan vent, and the venting to the side of the removable PCIe slot assembly, both appear to have a much finer grate. It’s too late of an hour and my eyes are too weary to count all the holes but it looks like there’s twice as many has the CS383. I wonder whether such a change would have a noticeable effect on such a fancy AI space heater?

Anyway… I meant to be trying to go to sleep!

That was asus concept design afaik. Not sure there would be sparks at 48v dc, seems still low for arcing to me

you can get sparks on connect with “12volts”. lots of videos on the net of people replacing their car battery and getting sparks

that’s not what I was talking about. The epoxy does not cover the contact end of the connector for obvious reasons so any sparking on connect is unaffected.

Epoxy is used in higher voltage applications to prevent sparking or arcing between metal parts carrying the current, it’s one of the reasons that the spark generator circuits used in bug zapper tools and ionizers are always encased in a solid block of resin nowadays.

I don’t think 48v is anywhere near high enough voltage to need epoxy to prevent similar sparking or arcs

The voltage helps the “breakdown” of the atmosphere to form a plasma channel, the more voltage, the easier the breakdown. The current is what gives the arc/spark.
Current wise, 10 amps will absolutely give fireworks.

The connector is garbage-tier and needs to be phased out before someone gets seriously injured.

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Thx for the feedback, I was chasing shadows while thinking out loud I guess.
As the 48v isn’t a thing.
And they accuse AI of hallucinating :sweat_smile:

As eager I am to see it go.
It’s probably unlikely the 12vhpwr gets phased out.
Nvidia has no intention to, as it benefits them In the datacenters.
It reduces their costs for cabling and labor, plus it’s one of the least likely places it can overheat.
Given how it’s practically assured contant cooling by air.

This might be an impossible question, but how might this compare to the new Threadripper Halo Station? Assuming it’s also like $100K?

And are any of these actually equal to the top models in Fable 5.1 and GPT 5.6 / 6? I suppose you usually won’t have time to do some real world tests? Like “Decompile and Port this old game” or “Build a clone of Photoshop CS2” ?

Good questions, you’d almost forget the fancy mega workstation Wendell showed off.

You might just want to ATweldell your question as he probably lost the plot in our discussion.
I’m pretty curios myself.

It is for those AI-server GPUs.

Stop buying anything that has it.

Datacenter stuff runs on board-board connectors, 8-pin EPS and proprietary connectors.

It’s a shame they didn’t just go with 8-pin EPS12V to begin with, it’s a well-tested and reliable connector, and supports over 300W continuously. Two 8-pins would provide the same power as 12VHPWR, without setting itself on fire if it’s ever-so-slightly misaligned.

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