Sup' everyone, I'm a freelance 3D Artist and also love playing games. My current PC (just so yoou know where I'm coming from) which I build about 3 Years ago is slowly dragging me down for both purposes: Intel i7-2600K Asus p6z68-v pro gen3 16 GB Ram Evga GTX-570 HD (an MSI GTX 1070 Gaming is already on it's way because playing games with the gtx-570 is already nearly impossible) Samsung 830 320GB SSD
First of all, I'm planing on building up a new machine but It's not urgent or let's say it will happen in about 2-3 months. I still would like to hear your thoughts on this today since I didn't stay up to date when it comes to recent hardware generations as much and you guys know much more about it all anyway. Also, maybe you know that something worth waiting even longer is just around the corner.
Budget/Location The budget would be something around 2.000 € but it's rather flexible and if it makes sense could go up to 3.000 €. That is excluding a craphics card since I already ordered a GTX 1070 and plan on puting it into the new workstation once I build it up. Also things like new monitors etc. are not needed for now. I live in Germany.
Aim What I need the workstation for: I'm working mainly with Autodesk 3D's Max + Vray creating 3D visualisations. Besides that Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign and a bit Premiere/After Effects. As for games mainly shooters, such as BF3, Homefront the Revolution and new ones to come... For my work CPU power, number of cores/threads and sufficient RAM is most essential. GPU rendering can be helpful for "live" render tests while setting up lighting etc but it's not that important in my case. That is also why I will not need a Quadro (those won't allow much gaming anyway). I would need 1x SSD for the System/Apps, optionaly 1xSSD for "active" job projects and definitely 1x 2 TB HDD.
Monitors 1 x EIZO CG222W (1680x1050) & 1x cheap Samsung Screen (1680x1050) Yes, I do plan on upgrading to a higher resolution at some point but that can wait for now.
Peripherals I will not need any extra peripherals but I will need a new Microsoft licence (running win7 now, I guess I might need a win10).
Why are you upgrading? Well, my current system is getting slow for my work. Recently I had the pleasure of working on several HP Workstations Z8xx while on a job. Seeing 50+ render buckets finishing an image in such a short time does leave a "deep scar" in one's mind. Btw. those workstations were equiped with high end Quadros and it still didn't make a big difference... at least not for the type of work and software that was used.
My Ideas/Plans I think that a Dual Xeon build makes most sense but... There is one thing I can't decide on though because I'm probably just stupid. Should I buy two Xeons of the older generations that are soooo much cheaper and build those in. Or should I buy just one newer 10-14 Core Xeon CPU for now and add a second one later when I realize that I need the extra power and have the extra money. I'm seeing lots of dual Xeon builds on youtube with the Xeon E5-2670 since it is so freaking cheap but I really don't know/understand the performance difference between the CPU generations. Is v1 much slower than the v4 broadwells or am I sacrificing something else completely? And how come the Xeon E5-2670 is that much cheaper? One thing is clear, if I build this thing up I want it to last 4-5 years, or at least that I can upgrade it in some meaningful way. So I assume it should be a 2011-3 socket board?
I'm not planning on custom water cooling, air cooling or aio liquid cooling would be enough. Having it run quiet, at least on idle would be great.
I'm aware that gaming uses less number of cores but instead needs higher clock speeds per core. As for my rendering work more cores/threads would probably be more benefitial. Hence the dilema choosing between let's say a 8 core 3.0 ghz CPU or a 12 core 2.4 ghz CPU.
Sorry for writting that much but I hope that way you might understand better what I'm looking for and what my options are.
Thanks a lot in advance for any tips and recommendations!
After watching the review videos of the Asus dual xeon mobo on Tek Sydicate's Youtube channel and them pointing out that there are many people experienced at workstation builds in the forum, I was hoping to get some experienced advices/suggestions here. Too bad :/
I would do something along these lines. Dual 10 core xeon's with 64gb of ram. This is a build that will last you a very long time, as there is more than ample compute power. I made it with the intention of the Gtx 1070 you ordered being used in this build. I also included a Dell 1440p monitor, as I think you would find that the extra screen space and solid Dell panel would be a great enhancement to your workflow.
Your sacrificing 4 generations of IPC improvements, so maybe 20-25% per core performance if not more. I would recommend buying new in this price range.
The part is cheaper simply because its old, and your not buying new cpu's, your buying cpu's that have came out of decommissioned servers.
I would not consider doing anything lower than a single socket WS grade board in your use case and needs. Dual socket as I selected is preferable. Lga 1151 is consumer grade and would be a step up from what your currently on, but Lga 2011-v3 is what I would recommend you buy if you want this to last for many years, 5+ at minimum.
Your going to be getting around 3.0ghz with the turbo on these xeon's when your in a gaming load that is only stressing 4 or 8 threads, so I liked these chips as I feel they are more than enough for your rendering needs and can still game without holding your gfx card back.
You asked about performance differences between the old dual 2670s and something more current.
In Cinebench R15 a dual 2670 system scores around 2000 points at the stock 3GHz boost clock. (3.3 is only on single core). That is around the same score as a dual E5 2630 V3. So you get a bit worse efficiency but basically the same performance for 10-15% of the money. The V4 might be slightly better because of the two extra cores. But I guess it will top out at around 2.7 or 2.8GHz. So more cores at a slower clock.
I built one of those dual 2670s. -> CLICKDATSHIT <- If you need raw CPU horse power, you can't go wrong with two of those chips. They are a steal.
Because your using autodesk 3D Max and Vray all the cores you can possible get is going to help you. Dont forget about ram too. I built a modest dual Xeon E5-2670 with 128gb of ecc ram for $800. Its not the fastest single thread but aggregated together its quick.
I mostly use my computer to do photography work (capture one pro and photoshop) but my wife and I also do Engineering work on it (Civil 3D, ArcGIS, and some finite element programs) coming from a overclocked 3770K I notice its a better overall experiance. When you have so much headroom with processor cores and ram you can have a lot of things going on and wont bring to a crawl. I dont feel its any slower at processing than the 3770K @4.6ghz. Maybe because I can actually use the computer when there is a heavy task going on in the background. Plus its sexy to have two sockets....
All in all If I had a budget like yours I would be torn between a newer processor and the OG E5's. Knowing me I would get the sandy E5's and upgrade to the ultimate monitor setup.
Wow, thanks so much for the build list! 20-25% less performance per core?! That does sound crazy but is better or worse IPC noticable in overall performance or just when it comes to certain tasks/work pattern? I mean would it really be comparable to 20-25% less performance for 3d rendering?
Wow, that IS crazy! What a price difference for basically the same performance. Even here in Germany I find ridiculously cheap E5-2670 Xeons.
Crazy what you got yourself there for just $800!
I really am torn now. I do have that budget but I also do not want to throw money out of the window if I can get a much better performance/cost deal. If I was working on a project that required a specific setup and I could get it only with newer, more expensive CPUs it would be a no brainer. However I just want to have a boost in rendering performance compared to what I'm using now while still have the confidence of being able to upgrade in future if that is needed. Since I my screens are lower resolution I guess that even with the older Xeons the GTX 1070 would allow me to play at decent frame rates, right? Surely a bottleneck but it's not like I'm pushing for 4k.
Wouldn't it make sense to get the two older E5-2670 Xeons now but get all the over hardware of the current generation so that I have a somethat futureproof base while saving lot's of money for later CPU upgrades? Like getting the Asus Z10PE-D8 WS board that caveman recommended, buy enough DDR4 RAM, two SSDs (one for sys/apps, one for active projects) and be happy for now? And then maybe in two years simply buy much better CPUs (more cores etc) when those also get cheaper?
As for monitors, yes I would like to step up the game but the widegamut EIZO monitor I'm using is hardware calibrated and it's enough for professional work right now.
they work, a youtuber I forget his name made a pretty epic build with it, you can also get those $70 8 core sandy bridge Xeons for $70 (decomished from facebook data centre)
There are ES chips without boost clock, there are chips with broken or deactivated protocols, some won't even work on some boards. Yeah, he got a working one and yes, there are chips out there that are completely fine.
But it is a lottery. And for my taste the ticket price is to high.
Oh man, those would be amazing for the price but yeah, if I have to play lottery I'd rather not.
As I wrote I will build the system in about 2-3 months so maybe by that time proper v3 Xeons will pop up on ebay. Btw. I was recommended to buy an Asus Z10PE-D8 WS SSI EEB or the cheaper Supermicro MBD-X10DAL-I-O. Is the Asus better? If yes, why?
well I mean $400 total, and they're easy to resell if it doesn't work on your mobo, If I needed a work station thats what I would do personally, but to each their own, sadly the chips are 1k new.
As I said, the old 2670s are pretty nice too. And those are not ES. Rumor is these chips come from facebook servers wich means not full load all the time and the best environment a cpu can have.
I ran a few handbrake conversions with stupid settings to really max out these things and they are completely fine. And two of those cost me 180,- Euro with tax and shipping. Now I have a small box with 16 cores / 32 threads that can perform like todays chips that cost around 1000,- to 1400,- a pair. Or lets put it this way: My dual xeon is around 10% slower in cinebench than a massively overclocked 6950X wich is 1700,-.
My whole build is 1250,- with all new parts except the CPUs and the 10Gbit NIC.
That is great but then I would need to get myself a 2011 socket system, as well as DDR3 Ram, right? If I want to upgrade to a better CPU in lets say 2-3 years, I would need to switch the whole plattform because 2011 is kinda dead.
On the other hand, If I go with two 8-Core Xeons v4 now, I would pay about 600 € more than for 2x2670s but would have ~20-30 better IPC, would have DDR4 Ram and in 3-4 Years (since I'd be on 2011-3) I could buy much better Xeons v4 for less money.
It all comes down to whether I want to save some money now and build something new in a few years or build something now that's more expensive, slightly faster and allows me to elaborate on in the future.