I am going to revive, but only to see what others have to say. Been a few months, I'm sure some opinions have changed or some of the new blood on the forum has an idea or two.
So? What do you newbies here think? Hell even the guys just stepping through the linux door and timidly walking into the fortress! Express an opinion!
Windows really rules the desktop. Also enterprise level networking is mostly Windows. Some say RHEL, but Windows is still leading slightly. Certainly, in an ideal world, everyone would know bash like they know the english language, but that's ridiculous to expect.
Linux is hard to master, easy to just get your basic tasks done.
Windows can be easy to master, but hard to be a grandmaster 'so to speak'. Meaning, from my experience, you can do everything very easily within the GUI in windows. In fact, for a long time, most of it was done that way.
However, Powershell is light years ahead of BASH in terms of syntax and getting what you need done through the CLI, in the least amount of effort.
In PS, everything is an object, and every object has 50 - 100 + properties, that define and explain what each object does.
Each object is essentially laid out in a csv or spreadsheet, and it's easy for your computer to parse that information, or to grab what information you want and pipe it.
In linux however, it's very formulaic. It's all about creating formulas and parsing text, in a non organized way. To basically reduce it down like powershell, but in a much more difficult and troublesome way. Using sed, awk, grep, etc.
In powershell, all you have to do is | select-object -property processname, workingset, VM, CPU | sort-object CPU | export-csv 'example.csv'
However in LINUX it's like you have to test your commands before you run them, to be sure it reduced it properly, and then you can pipe it.
We have MS which has like so much money to pour into the PowerShell / .NET Framework API, and yet Bash is still more extensible at this time. It won't be for long however...
eventually Powershell will be better, just based on the object property model alone. If M$ can get their shit together, keeps promoting open source Power$hell things, then we may eventually have different flavors of super cars, essentially.
Either a Bugatti or a McClaren. Both will get the job done, it's just up to the users preference.
Clearly LINUX though still has the upper hand in terms of overall operating system adoption. Everything that mostly isn't interactive like your refigerator, or you dish washer, or your TV, is probably all using a form of NIX' operating system.
It's still VERY important to know Windows. Especially if you want to feel comfortable to walk up to any desktop operating system and be a fucking King.
Only thing I will point out.
No.
Enterprise level CLIENTS are windows, but largely everything else is not.
As for
Thats interesting, I will say. I know nothing about powershell itself but a tool like grep has a purpose. Its a tool. grep retrieves text, tar is an unpacker as is unrar and such, but where powershell (I guess?) is better[ish] is that it has SOME of that stuff built in. From my use its a glorified package manager that can make a spreadsheet. I mean, thats neat, but bash is still better and I already know my POSIX type terminals than whatever M$ can pull out of its ass.
Where bash is neat is that it has the basics, cd ls etc, built in (like dos sorta but not really) with the ability to make alias functions (example is to make a word like "read" do "ls" instead. I can't remember how, too tired ATM), and use tools besides that are built for it specifically, such as grep, curl, awk, etc. Those aren't baked in like in powershell, and because of that a patch can be hand made or more functions added to those tools by hand. This allows for more flexibility than a powershell user will get (with it all baked in and closed source theres not much to be done if you don't like whatever windows' version of grep is) in his day to day. bash, and similar terms, also allow a verbose readout. I can't start steam in a windows shell and get a 5 mile long debug of every fucking thing I do. Now, maybe not for steam (as its closed source but an example), but for other apps that are open source that may not want to start, do not run all of their functions, or whatever reason can be made, this tooling allows for a lot quicker of a debug than the cumbersome windows process of a memory reader, 2 terminals, a debug tool, and your IDE running it live. Linux you need 1 terminal, maybe another with your IDE running in it (I use nano :| )
I know its a difference in development tactics, but in my opinion if powershell keeps everything baked rather than modular it will just be a failure. I'm still confused why its in linux as a terminal option rather than just a manager for the Azure Toolbox.
Fair enough, my statement doesn't make sense. I just meant that, if a company is predominately using windows for clients, then they probably have a windows server, Domain controller, active directory, GPO, etc.
I'm sort of a noob when it comes to systems level things, but from my work experience, it's mostly been Windows.
I have only worked a few IT jobs so far in my career, and every single one has had a Windows Server.
We use NIX for our production environment, the databases we pull from, and the programs we use to retrieve the information from the NIX server, all Nix based. (If that makes sense, it's a terminal type program that uses a tree design to navigate the database)
However, for logging in, we use AD, we use an SMB file share, and mostly windows for our client side operating systems, interacting with the network level.
It's just the programs within windows that interact with the unix server.
I edited.
Theres always at least one from what I have seen. For stuff similar to Novell (thats what I am used to even though it doesn't exist anymore my HS used it and I worked IT there for 3 years) a windows server will host those functions for a client. AD can be tricky, but theres plenty of AD tools and hosting env's for unix/linux workspaces now. 4 years ago I would have laughed at the small steps it had made, now? Now its almost even and coming in hot. Theres also other stuff a linux server will do better. SMB as well as SAMBA, file, user management, etc. Theres tooling for that now, or on the way. In my experience it has been handled better and much faster in linux. Faster updates.
Well, I'm sort of okay at powershell.
The alias thing is totally easy to do. it's just notepad $profile.allusersallhosts or $profile.alluserscurrenthost, profile.currentuserallhosts, and profile.currenthostallusers
Then for alias's it's just :
new-alias -name "teksyndicate" -value "c:\users\cbankord\desktop\teksyndicate.lnk"
for example with that, if you made a hidden shortcut on your desktop, you can launch the site just by hitting the tilda key with conemu, and typing in teksyndicate.
You can define functions or call scripts, or even make custom scripts and call shortcuts. So it's totally modular in that regard.
But it does have some setbacks, because when you get deep into Powershell, you will have to interface with the .NET framework to do everything.
What I'm trying to say, is that you can literally do anything you want in it, but it just takes a ton of time to learn, and probably a ton of prep work to make windows the way you want.
It's obviously a step in the right direction from Microsoft. But yeah... I see what you're saying, because I don't know of any debugging portion of Powershell yet, or anything similar to Logs, other than eventvwr. I'm sure it exists... but I still need to learn more about it.
Why is this tread still going? Bash is on Windows and .net is getting open sourced.
There isn't a war, blah.
Suse and Canonical are chummy with MS. They gave it a rest let's all do the same.
I wanted to see what some of the new people had to say. No wars :3
But that is where it always goes.
/Wanders off to the networking section.
Says who?
I can't tell you many specifics. But I can tell you that a lot of companies can not ditch their windows boxes fast enough.
Can't agree more. The radio station I got an interview at had largely linux everything. The only machines that weren't linux were like 5 macs, and the one big big studio that has windows mac and linux in it.
I am talking about companies who hire more than 10K people and use their servers to run services that gross more than a few million a day.
And they literally just throw out their microsoft boxes.
Some of these companies are only a couple miles from microsoft in redmond. Sooooooooooo yeah. Windows server is dead.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah no.
That chart is only accurate when it comes to desktop and mobile OS.
Most of that data is kind of pointless. Most companies I know will intentionally avoid discussion about their servers.
If you start telling everyone in the world that bank of america runs on justin beiber linux, then you are going to have people who will target security vulnerabilities in justin beiber linux.
The other issue is that companies can change their whole infrastructure almost over night.
This actually happened to me once. I was working on windows machines on friday. And then when I got to work on monday I learned there was a small fire and that some of our machines were replaced with a bunch of debian boxes.
1 week later we were about 80% debian. And then a month later we were 100% debian.
So yeah. The IT world is pretty fickle about OSes, so please take those charts with a huge grain of salt.
I think that if Google would to be more out there and say that Android and Chrome OS run off of Linux then more people will use Linux. Maybe 10% of current BSD users decided to use BSD because they heard that Mac OS X and Mac OS is based off of BSD. It would be cool to see a "Linux inside" sticker on Linux powered Google devices.
And I think foo is a problem, it took me a long time to realize what foo is. When I first came to GNU/Linux I would always enter the foo part and that would mess up what I was doing. #KilltheFoo
Let's revive this thread!
This can accompany the thread we have on here about a L1T distro.
We could take the info here and use that info to create a great distro.
I think I read Gartner or someone like that is poised to report Linux has in fact overtaken windows. In terms of devices using Linux and hours logged per day of end user use/number of devices/etc.
And Linux is 15 years younger than windows +/-
One word - inertia.
Business have been using Windows PCs since the 1980's, which is well before Linux was a thing. Years later when Linux became available, it was initially only suitable for researchers and hobbyists. More importantly, there was no such thing as a Linux support contract. That came much later, when Red Hat Linux OS transitioned their business model and become the Red Hat of today.
Additionally, it has only been but a short time since a Linux ISO could be expected to just work on commodity PC hardware. Even today, we have more than a handful of hardware (printer, wifi card, laptop) manufacturers who refuse to support Linux.
Business continue to use Windows because it is the devil they know, it does most of what they need and it is a safe solution. Meaning, that no one is going to risk their job to switch their company to a Linux solution for fear that the transition may go horribly wrong. Let's not forget Microsoft's years long FUD campaign against Linux.
And then there are the applications. Business have spent horrendous sums of money on custom Windows applications, upon which they operate their companies. Most of this software would necessarily be thrown away in a Linux environment and new, replacement applications written ... again at horrible cost. Even if Linux is viewed as a viable alternative, it is considered to be far too disruptive and expensive. The cost to train employees on a new OS, would be considerable, as well. It would be far easier to recruit new business startups into the Linux family, than an established company.
So, while many graphical artists may use Mac and ISP and telecom companies may use Linux and BSD, 98% of the public are not employed by these businesses, so they would never have an opportunity to come into contact with Linux. Smart phones, tablets and IOT devices are a relatively new phenomenon and even when people come do contact with them, they have no idea that most are powered by Linux.
TL;DR - people are familiar with Windows, because that is what they use at work. Therefore, when they purchase a PC for home, they quite naturally purchase a Windows box.