Why is linux not as big as it should be?

Software & Operating Systems Linux
186

To be honest, there are reasons why someone would opt for developing for a commercial closed source target. The main reason is DRM. Linux in pure open source form knows no DRM. This is the one thing corporations hate most about open source. It's not the open source character any more. In fact, Apple is the king of "all the things for me alone" and they're providing transparency to the governments that have enough guns and money to make them open their source. The real reason is that software patents do not provide the same benefit they used to any more. That's mainly because those corporations can't keep the source from leaking, because they want to replace reliable, obedient, western industrial consumer type employees with cheap labour in developing countries where people don't give a fuck, and code is leaked faster than it is written. So corporations have stopped investing in software patent protection, because they'd rather not be punishable when they steal ideas from others.

The new thing is hardware protection. They've learned from makers that the most effective way to slow down the market access of competitors is to use open source software, so that your idea gets developed very fast to a high level of quality and performance by the entire open source community, and at the same time you blow those fuses, so that the competitors have a hard time figuring out the missing link on a hardware level.

DRM is definitely entering the open source realm, but only with closed source applications. That's why Microsoft would not mind at all degrading "MS-Windows" into a kind of GUI shell running on linux, after the example set by Valve with SteamOS and the linux Steam client, or Google with Android and ChromeOS. There are currently more proprietary commercial shells on linux to chose from than full proprietary operating systems... yup, that's actually what's happened in the last few years... and guess what, people really like it... chromebooks and android devices have sold more than any previous computing device.

The only problem is, that in order to use those proprietary shells on linux, you have to pay Google or Amazon or Valve, and with Microsoft out of pure desperation having open sourced the .NET development environment recently, that's not so much the case any more with Microsoft. So if you're after DRM-protection, Microsoft now offers a decent alternative, even though they might change their minds at any moment in time lolz...

Example: you start a company whereby you sell an IoT device that you only want to work with your services and commercial software products (as in software-as-a-service, which is a lot, for instance, 3D printing the way Microsoft sees it, you have to pay to print predefined commercial models, you don't have to model anything yourself, you just invest and let the Microsoft people think for you...). You could go to Google, and all of their development tools are free and there is store access for free, but you can't squeeze your audience with ads, because Google will take the biggest share, and you can't go a solo route, because Google will downgrade your search relevance, etc... Amazon will do the same, Apple will take an even bigger cut. Microsoft is so desperate for platform support in this new way of marketing things, that they might actually be the best choice for certain IoT products. Not for things that typically work with mobile devices, because Microsoft doesn't have anything even remotely decent to offer in that realm, but for desktop things like 3D printers, elaborate games, large screen entertainment, etc...

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187

But Steam runs on Linux. Steam is DRM.

GOG games run on Windows. GOG doesn't have DRM.

DRM depends on the program developer. It has nothing to do with the operating system (with the exception of modern apps).

188

Yeah but no one cares if you buy a game on steam and someone else wants it. It's accepted that steam as a service and valve as a company want to make money.The DRM isn't a bad thing either, mind you, and there are things in the GPL that say "Yeah, all that is fine." There is space for business in there as well not just "Hey, show me your butt".

189

I actually think that this is the best answer in the whole thread. You've hit the nail on the head. In order to get Linux on the desktop, you or someone around you has to care about the OS. In all my years of using Linux, I have never been told: "I don't really know anything about personal computers, I just walked into a computer store and they sold me a Linux machine." Maybe a few of these people exist somewhere, but I would wager all of my money that they are an incredibly rare minority. You or someone close to you has to care, has to care enough to learn about it, and usually, to install and maintain it.

In order for Linux to become more popular, either people will need to start caring en masse (not optimistic about that one), or we would need to arrive at a situation where they won't have to care anymore, meaning that they would be able to walk into any electronics store and see pre-configured Linux machines everywhere.

For people like us in the tech world, it may be easy to forget that the experience of the OS is often the last thing on the minds of most users, that it may not enter their minds at all. Many people buy Windows machines because their employer required them to, because their friends or families have them, or because they need to for certain software or peripherals, etc. Likewise, many people buy Macs because they like the design, because they fiddled around with one at the Apple Store, because they heard it will work better with their iPhone, and so on. Outside of the diehard tech enthusiast world, it is rare to meet people who say "I just really love OS X / Windows / Android etc."

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190

It really depends on where you mean. As a desktop OS its not as big as it should be. But for other things such as embedded systems and servers it's number one.

191

Steam isn't open source m8.

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192

I know that. I was only talking about installing DRM on Linux.

I thought @Zoltan was talking about developing programs for Linux (because I was talking about programs for Windows), but actually he was talking about developing the operating system itself.

I was so focused on the first half of his post that I forgot about the second half. Sorry.

193

What I think are the main reason its not successful in desktop is because of these two reasons:

  1. It doesn't come pre-installed in most of the machines that you buy from stores. Installing might be a pain and difficult for some people and also some people just don't even want to learn and go through the process of installing an operating system. They just want things out of the box and stock. Linux isn't that kind of operating system, it requires tinkering to some degree.
  2. Lack of games, while steam is gaining popularity it still lacks a lot of gaming options and availability
194

If there was not that much diversity and everyone was working towards one idea, maybe Linux would be more polished and more companies would push to have it installed on their hardware. But in China, Dell is selling Ubuntu computers, and the same in Romania, its just the US really that Linux is not that popular. In terms of companies selling Linux Machines.

195

I think a big part of why linux is not as big as it should be is the part where EVERY DISTRO IS DOING IT'S OWN THING!!! Strange how that is both a blessing and a burden at the same time. Yes I think that the burden of choice is a wonderful thing that I love. For example: I love the fact that there are so many distros like Fedora, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Arch, Debian, Suse, etc. But then I hate it because of the fact that each has thier own way of doing things. For example, try to make an instance of Synergy startup before the user logs in. I dare you. I've found 3 different ways for 3 different distros in the last 10 minutes that don't work for my distro. Not to mention graphics environments. Gnome, Cinnamon, KDE, XFCE, LXDE, etc.

So I think my response would be that the burden of choice is what is both helping and hindering linux as a mainstream OS.
Bp

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196

Windows is so ubiquitous and has been for so long that the current generation doesn't know anything ells. So if you are a bis., or school, or government agency, or whatever, and everyone already knows how to use windows with ease, why change? You can teach an old dog new tricks, but it takes a hell of a lot of time and effort. Why spend that much time when windows cuts the mustard just fine?

Also when you have a crap ton of old machines that run previous versions windows it would be easier to stick with the same old thing rather than upgrade, again costing time, money, and resources.

I want to be clear I am a supporter of Linux and believe in open source and all that jargin but I have to use windows because I have to work with other people who also have to use windows. We use windows because its provided for us, has all the appropriate applications easy to install and easy transfer of information in a well know way.

197

Doesn't help that every time there is a kernel xorg update, devices explode left right, and centre. And in the case of AMD video drivers, they implode taking your x window with it. It will be nice once the Open-Source drivers get to OpenGL 4.3++, atm OGL4.1 is far too limiting (most my shit simply doesn't run/or crashes violently).

AMD should be shitting their pants about now, people are dropping support for them all over Linux!

198

Well yeah if you don't use FGLRX you'll be fin :| That is the general rule of linux and AMD.

As for your use of explosionary words I will say stop watching action movies :P Unless you're really freaking stupid it takes A LOT to kill xorg just by updating. Maybe in 1998 it was that way, but again, you have to be really stupid to manage to do that :|

199

I have done it on a couple distros because of weird dependency conflicts, for example on Antergos, after installing the FGLRX drivers which FAIL on kernel 4.2 or above, you uninstall them and they take the xorg server along with them.

Atm I'm on OpenSUSE and thankfully a boot into the shell and simple uninstall script works, but its not the case for every distro. And no general rule isn't to use OpenSource, its only just recently they have had OpenGL 4.1 added (many games are above this), and generally in the past FGLRX performed better (and still does for anything that needs above opengl4.1)).

Its just AMD screwed up with 15.9 by not integrating proper future kernel support!

I have the OS drivers atm, before I install FGLRX (when its fixed) I'll perform some basic performance/functionality test on my games to give an example of why they are not the solution to AMDs linux problems (yet).

200

If you're a linux user you should KNOW antergos is BAD NEWS. I'm not surprised the OS didn't just uninstall itself TBH. Again, you should also know that the proprietary drivers are not worth it. Like at all. The team in charge of the linux drivers are busy with other things so little work gets put towards them, whereas the linux community has a shit ton of people refining and working on the opensource radeon drivers daily.

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Should I? Just because I use linux I should know this all automatically? You need to step down a bit there mate.

For starters the FGLRX drivers generally work fine on Kernels below 4.1, you can even get them working on 4.1.8 with a patch or two. And they are not only worth it but like I keep saying to people LIKE you, they're actually needed in order to run a great many 'newer' titles currently out (I'm not talking about ancient history titles you may currently run).

If you're not a gamer then fine, but don't start talking on your soapbox just because someone wishes to experiment with AMD drivers open or closed in order to get optimal performance, or in this case get newer titles running.

How many times does someone need to tell you that the Open Source drivers are EXTREMELY limited before you actually acknowledge it? Good for you if OpenGL4.1 is enough! but some of us have moved on into the present!

202

Oh, yes, because a lot of games will use the few buffs 4.3 has made :| If anything it's bug fixes and some physics.

Good for you.

203

Huh?

Fglrx is deprecated in linux from kernel 4.2 on. 4.2 brought AMDGPU, KMS modules in the kernel, no need to soil your kernel with binary blobs any more. From there on, if you want to keep your userspace clean too, just go with open source drivers, and if you don't mind some proprietary back end in your userspace (which I don't mind at all in this case, as long as the MAC/RBAC can stay shut and enforcing the crap out of any suspicious activity on system level), then go with the proprietary bits and bobs that will deliver the latest of whatever you think you need...

Complaining about fglrx not running on kernel 4.2 is impertinent though lol...

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204

Well, let's look at who runs computers. I break users into three categories: Casual, intermediate, and advanced. The casual user basically uses his or her computer for the internet. Most of the time spent by a casual user is in a web browser or in a game or two. I would fall into this category. The intermediate user uses the computer for considerably more: work(Microsoft office and Adobe Suite), hard core gaming, video and audio production, and coding. I would put you in this category. Then there is the advanced user. The guy who mapped the DNA molecule using fifty Linux computers and the universities that have those super computers that measure climate change.

Let's look at the three groups. Most casual users don't know what Linux is. The ones that do are afraid they will wreck their computer and have to take it to the shop because they are afraid that they will screw up the install. They also figure why should they go through all the trouble of learning a new system. They don't know enough about computers to know how bad Windows is. I'm not here to start a fight. I just don't like it. The sad part is that Linux is best suited for this type of user.

The intermediate user isn't going to mess with it because they see Linux as a downgrade. They've already paid for MS Office and the Adobe Suite. That's a hell of an investment in time and money learning them. Also, a lot of intermediate users have a hard time substituting programs to do things like video editing and Logan has had headaches with audio editing.

The advanced users are perfectly happy with it, but their numbers are very small.

The bottom line is that for the casual user Linux is just going to have to be installed on the computer they buy. For the intermediate user, the apps are going to have to improve. I don't know how many times a Linux user has said that a Linux app can almost do as much as a Windows app. Oh, there's also a bit of a learning curve. That's not going to cut it. People switch to something they believe is better. If the Gnu/Linux community want people to switch, they need to stop churning out a hundreds of clone distros and three dozen desktop environments so they can get the apps to do MORE than Windows and Mac. The talent is there, but focus seems to be a major problem. The FOSS community have no shortage of developers. What is truly needed are designers. A lot of the GUI interfaces are ugly and not intuitive.

People reading this probably think I'm bashing Linux, but I'm not. I'm just being honest. When I truly care about something, I'm brutally honest.

205

Mostly I complain about Open-Source drivers not supporting higher then Opengl4.1 (yet), at present. There may not be much difference between 4.1 and 4.3 but I do know that many of my games break without 4.3 or higher, and wine doesn't work on gl4.1 any more last time I checked either.

Ultrimately its a headache, I will live with it for now and hope updates come in time. Just a shame fglrx didn't work as it at least supported later opengl api.

I actually can't find any confirmation of that anywhere, everyone still appears to think FGLRX is a thing and will work in later kernels in time. Got AMD statement? FGLRX from what I understand will in the future work under AMDGPU kernel driver also (from what I understand).

If you guys were in my shoes you'd be scratching your head pretty hard also. But I see no one in this conversation runs the things I do so will leave it at that!