I completely agree with everything you've said I'm fully aware of the financing options and how open source makes money through various different channels and that there will always be philanthropic sponsors and donors that will donate to keep projects running I have done so myself but let me give you a small example of the choices devs have.
Have you ever seen the free game on your phone I forget exactly which one it was it's one where you match fruits/sweets up like bejewelled (it might be Candy Crush I forget), last year the company that makes game made $867 Million from in app purchases, I think it was Star Wars Commander was making $600,000 per day. If you're a dev which are you going to focus on $867 Million from or free donations and hustling for sponsors? That's right 99.9% of devs are going to dev where the money is. That is the point I was trying to make not that no one will dev products for Linux or open source but most businesses are not going to invest millions of dollars in developing for echo system that most of its users believe should be free and open source. Perception is quite often reality. I have heard the same arguments coming from the Linux camp for 20 years and nothing has changed until Linux wakes up and either address it problems or realises that most people maybe incorrectly perceive free as inferior then it will never grow to the extent we all want it too.
With regard to the way Valve operates that's more about how Gabe thinks and how to manage and retain talent if you have everyone invested and doing something they are passionate about and sharing in the rewards then your very lucky. Valve is in a position where by it dominates a market and has no one to answer to which gives it an enormous amount of freedom.
The only thing is I wish Valve could find someone to work for them that is passionate about customer service like ME!!! ;P rated one of the worst companies for customer service by the better business bureau and many of its customers that have ever had a problem.
At no point did I say I didn't like it I merely said that if Linux could fix the things that didn't work for me I would use it until then I'll stick to Windows as my daily driver.
Because competition is good it leads to innovation and that can only lead us to new things and if alerting the Linux community to barriers to entry isn't useful then I don't know what is. If Linux users are happy using Linux as is great but if there are users out there when Linux doesn't bridge the gap then surely having us say so can only be a good thing? If Linux worked with all my toys I would be happy to switch to it but it doesn't. Yes I want it too so I will say so.
I would say games are a bit different since it's more entertainment than production and development. Evidently, modding is very popular, but the more common issues with games are the copyright issues rather than the programming. I completely agree with the initial sale over the use sale in that case.
Who said that Linux can only have Open Source/Free software ? Yep, stupid followers of the GNU movement and RMS (by stupid, I mean not anchored in reality and RMS is probably more neuro-atypical then stupid.). No one forced you to do anything, in fact, their are a few DRM software on Linux...
Can you tell me what platforms pay's the more money for something they could get waaay cheaper ? Thank you, it's Linux. The fact of the matter is developers suffer from three problems:
They don't know what Linux is
They are too scared to make Linux users pay for software.
They work for ignorant companies who also have one or both of the two above problems...
Not knowing what Linux is, is less of a thing then it uses to be, granted. But it's still there. A couple of weeks ago, I was having a discussion with a dev I just met on the spot, he wrote most of his apps for mobile platforms and at about half time of the discussion, we talked about our views on alternative desktops operating systems. It all started when I mentionned I ran Linux, at first he thought that I was a crazy IT guy, running around and solving server problems... Then the conversation continued with me trying to explain why I run Linux on everything, desktops, servers, mobile & IoT included. It was not the best talk I ever had but it really showed me how most developers in fact don't really know Linux and think that in order for Linux to be usable users have to recompile their kernel every week and do complex procedures every time their boot their machine (which is kind of what I do every couple of weeks, but always by choice and never obligation).
Linux is as stable, compatible and cool as you make it. Deal with it.
Being scared of making Linux users pay for software is a common thing, people think that on Linux everything should be free, as in freedom and free as in beer, the only way for companies to make money on the FOSS ecosystem is to make users pay for tech support. They are missing the point. In fact, you only need a high quality application, people will buy it if it's good enough. A model that should be adopted by most people writing code is the same as the HB, buy it for whatever you want as long as you buy it. And to improve the model and give more FREEDOM to the user, tell them: "here's the source code, use it however you want". Of course, if you buy it you can have special goodies and stuff like that. This makes everyone have more freedom.. What the GNU/GPL folks are really doing is giving more freedom to the Code then the programmer, who wrote and perfected his code, and the user, who is using, reporting eventual bugs and thereby contributing to the developement too...
People should be free, Code is a tool, your screwdriver doesn't have more freedom then you. Deal with it.
Companies also suffer from those problems, not knowing what Linux is and being "scared" of Linux users. The real question is what are they going to do? Sure if your thing is shitty you're going to get hate mails, and finish like Lenhart (even though he did not deserved all that hate, and I don't think anyone deserves it). The Linux community is hostile, hostile to everything that does not fliter their Unix banana, "everything that does not support this Ideal should be hated on". The problem is that really, people need to settle down, yes we have been all traumatized in the past, seen (apparently?) healthy communities die in a short period of time due to "intruders" looting the previous "helpfulness" of the "Unix fort" and then... Past is past, it's just a mental thought form, you can't possibly prove that the "past", aka your own personal and mental construct existed and you can't let imaginary insecurities influence your own actions and reactions, life and emotions.
Dealing with people and living in communities is hard, we all need to forget our personal benefit and insecurities and find a common ground where we all can build uppon. Deal with it.
Ignorance is bliss, everyone like's to keep a certain amount of bliss/abstraction, it ain't new... No one forced anyone towards Linux, Linux users are selfish and just want support, it ain't new... (sorry for the little troll :D)
The plan for Linux isn't to take the desktop of average users... YET. Like it took the server/mobile world, it's all progressive. Let's take the example of android. Who used android 1.xx and 2.xx ? Mobile phone enthusiast, exactly. First enthusiasts were on the road, playing with it, making apps, making the OS usable, then average users followed. My mom&dad run Android now... (they also run Linux because of their non use of proprietary software & me :p.) It was the same on the server world, first the bearded sysadmin/Lisp/perl programer/hacker and then the rest... It shall be the same on the Desktop.
Enthusiasts adopt new & exciting things first, the average users, then follows. Deal with it
First enthusiasts, then the pleb :D, again, it works the same way. Good drivers and support will come...
Supports comes after the enthusiast adopted it, created some support and after a big player (Steam) realizes the potential of the platform enthusiast chose and pimp it to their advantage. Deal with it
And for all people that still don't know about Latex & Markdown's supperiority for document creation: Deal with it
Do not feel offended, justDEAL WITH IT, until it is time for the "hive mind", DEAL WITH YOUR OWN AND PERSONAL CONCIOUS CHOICE
The Five Seconds Miracle is taking complete responsability for anything and everything that happens in your life.
There's loads of stuff but there's one statement that sort of sums it up 'mum and dad run android now'. The Android echo system is a very expensive corporate owned walled garden just like Apple's IOS make no mistake it's no longer 'free' and mum and dad couldn't give two cents for Android itself its invisible and that's how using Linux needs to be. At the risk of repeating myself I'll stop now as most of the other comments I have already made.
And as for every deal with it comment I have dealt with it that's why I'm using Windows that doesn't mean I still don't want Linux to improve and that doesn't mean I'm not going voice my opinions where those improvements might be made.
Linux has been in the hands of the enthusiasts for 20 years and still hasn't managed the transition to the 'pleb' and it never will because enthusiast don't see the barriers the plebs do and don't want an open discussion to remedy them.
Your average game makes more money than your average Hollywood block buster. I saw one of the shooters the other month launch and on the Friday alone is was in the $800 Million mark in one day. Games are now the leading form of entertainment across the world and if you platform doesn't support them it will never break mainstream.
All is in the BFP, Linux is an entire operating system for all things, it doesn't take 5 years like a phone only operating system.
5 years x 4 use cases (phone + servers + Desktop + internet of things) = 20 BTW
Steam "just noticed" Linux and look at the number of games on it now, in 1 year! Companies will see that there is in fact a market on Linux and, you won't have to Deal with it no more, as you & others will be part of the "hive mind" (AKA: everyone runs linux so it will be usable and polished for every one, as for the moment only enthusiasts run linux and it's in fact quite polished for them.)
But the games themselves aren't open-source. The underlying architectures and libraries are what are important, and depending what they choose can be either open-source or proprietary. Dx isn't on Linux, obviously; it's not because Dx is proprietary, but rather because Dx is Microsoft's product, thus they are keeping it within their own ecosystem. We do have our alternatives, like OpenGL, and as Dx12 comes around Valve has been working on their own alternative, Vulkan, which will work on all popular platforms, including Linux.
Valve is working on that because there is a demand for gaming support on Linux. It goes full circle. :b
I don't know, as I told berfore, I think It's more about the introduction and presentation than the actual "scaryness" of linux to average users.
Dad's been using now for almost a year Fedora21 with XFCE on a MSI Wind U100 (one of those first Atom netbooks). That machine was already gathering dust in a drawer and now it's back in action. There might be a time where he finds something he doesn't quite understand, but the good thing is, error prompts on linux are markable, so he just highlights it, and pastes it on a txt file I created so I can take a look at what is troubling him.
He clearly doesn't care of free as freedom or in the community sense of linux. He just uses it and expects that everything he uses works. And soon I'll have to introduce it to my grandpa, who is really stubborn (he gave me hell when updated his XP to 7).
mindblown I just saw you post while I was typing my relply @Logan this is an awesome board you have here
Regarding games and apps, as always, it's a catch22. As a dumb example: how many people do you know that use electric cars? Most people are not buying electric cars because the lack of options and support (i.e. recharge stations over long distances). There are no electric recharging stations on long roads because there are so few electric cars.
As soon as more people start using electric cars for commuting, there will be long distance recharge stations and you will be able to take a roadtrip across your country with an electric car.
I love linux but I have to break it to you; Valve is working on Linux because it's scared of what could happen with the Windows Store. They have a good service and a reliable software platform, but they're not working on a righteousness basis. they -as any other company- are looking to their bottom line.
EDIT: And also they are shaving prices off the steam machines as they don't need to pay for Windows licenses
It's better then nothing and it will have the same effect, so it's not that important :D They still pimp Linux to their advantage and will then consider stuff they never did before and it will again benefit tremendously to the comunity :p
I agree that could be a factor, but if you read any of the comments that newbs to Linux have, gaming support is one of the most common ones. I would say that the argument is inherent, because they see that Windows is a potential future problem, thus want to work on Linux, thus push Linux, which people want to see. If people didn't respond to their change of direction, then I don't think they would have followed through as strongly.
I remember installing nVidia drivers a few years ago and the famous Linus quote "Fuck you nVidia!".
It's been a helluva ride this last year. I'm really enjoying the prospect future of companies nurturing the Linux ecosystem. now FFS adobe this would be a great time to have CC ported to Linux DAMMIT!
GNU/Linux isn't free Windows not will it ever be and that is fine with me.
There will be commercial products based on Linux. Desktop Linux is made by hackers for hackers. If that sounds good or bad to you, cool you have an opinion.
Server and embedded Linux does have a ton of corporate money in it and pretty much runs the world. Maybe if Redhat and/or Suse worked on a consumer desktop it would take some market share. Chrome OS has done a decent job of taking a lot of the low end market from MS.
Linux is Linux take it or leave it. Same goes for every other OS.
Look at how the most popular desktop Linux distributions make their revenues. Providing additional services and support contracts. Donations aren't their only source of income.
Most of the people in the Linux ecosystem don't care weather their programs are closed source or open source. They look at the cost, and they choose what works for them.
You already run Linux on your smartphone and tablet. Why? because Linux was there when they became popular. Your Personal Computer has been running Windows for decades. Right now, Linux is competiting on the desktop like never before, but not in the first world.
He is spot on with his reply, except China, India and Mexico are just getting personal computers. They don't have any programs they need to keep from previous computer, so you know what they're picking up more and more?
The NSA/GCHQ spying matters certainty aren't doing Microsoft any favours either. With the Chinese banning the use of Windows 8 in government. Although the distro they choose makes Linux almost invisible that's another matter. Many distros you won't ever have to touch the command line if you don't want to. Even if it leaves that choice open to you.
Venting? It's ok, there are great points of view and if there are no insults on the playing field, everybody comes out a bit more knowledged than when they entered here.
