Why I dislike tesla cars currently

Just did some quick easy math , with a 35,000$ budget.....

You could buy a 14,000$ ford fiesta , with a 12.4 gallon tank and a max range of 490 miles. With gas at 2$ per gallon currently , and 20,000$ of budget left , you can drive the car roughly 390,000 miles before you ran out of money.

If we make it more realistic and set aside 10,000$ of the money for future repairs , then we can drive 195,000 miles before running out of money.

Or , you can buy the cheapest tesla , and spend the exact same amount of money without driving a single mile. :)

"you can't compare these cars , one is economy and one is luxury"

Unfortunately they are comparable. Both these vehicles are the lowest cost vehicle from both companies. Both claim to be affordable. And of course both can carry a family of 5.

As a bonus , the fiesta will take a minimum time of 2785 hours to reach 195,000 miles driving at 70mph 24/7. The tesla will take exactly 1132 hours longer with a minimum time of 3917 hours to complete 195,000 miles using the 75 minute fast charger and driving 24/7 at 70mph.

The day telsa makes a car that costs less and goes farther than gas , I'm all in and all for it. Till then it's a massive waste of money on a popularity toy , nothing more.


Drove over 100,000 miles past 12 months. Passed exactly 1 electric charging station during that time.
The government does give you a 6500 dollar "bribe" to buy Tesla or other hybrid.

Tesla's only start to make day to day sense if you live in a city. which i do.

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If you are looking for Tesla, your other options should be BMW, Mercedes or Audi - generally higher end cars. Not a Fiesta. Tesla is hi-end luxury electric vehicle with reasonable range and is suited for those who want to feel the electric power acceleration while staying eco-friendly.

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So how does your math work when gas is $6/gal and electricity is still 10c/kwh

the margins would be narrower to the point the tesla would still have to catch up, but it would be much sooner

Those will never happen at the same time, unless every refinery explodes right at this moment

Coal will get more expensive as well, since it is finite just like oil, and solar is still too inefficient to to be effective for mainstream, needs lots-o-sun, etc

and dont even start on wind

$35K for an electric vehicle isn't bad right now. Especially after incentives. The fact is though those intensives are going away and a gas powered vehicle, over the long term, will be a better option if you care about saving money.

That isn't the point though really of this vehicle. This vehicle, like all Teslas, are for relatively well off people who need to show off to all their friends how much they love the environment. While this vehicle is in a more reasonable price range, it still has that same problem. For many this can't be your only vehicle. Even with the range claims, which I'm highly skeptical about, it isn't enough for many. You'd need to stop and recharge on longer trips which, even if stations are available, takes forever. So you'd really need two vehicles making more when you look at the big picture. Even for people in the city it isn't a great option. If you live there you probably should be taking public transport and will only need a car occasionally. If that is the case it makes much more sense economically to buy something economical and cheap like a Fiesta, Forte, Cruz, ect....

Also while some people are claiming the $35K one is going to do at least 210 miles I'm skeptical. The Tesla site itself is vague in its wording. It could be that some models that cost more have that range or the $35K one does. Its weird. I also find it hard to believe that they could get that much range, at that price, in a car that size when the Model S has a bigger battery and only manages 230 miles. Yeah it has reduced performance in comparison but still.... We shall see.

TBH I'm curious if it will even come out when they say as well. It has been delayed multiple times already.

Tesla quality and reliability is also very very problematic. I know someone who bought a mid range Model S and he has had a serious number of issues with it and Tesla has been dismissive and unhelpful in providing repairs or assistance. (IMO material and build quality isn't stellar either. The interior looks nice but many of the materials feel cheap, panel gap is evident and there are a fair amount of rattles and squeaks). Most regular shops won't fix them and it is hard to do it yourself adding more costs there. Consumer Reports also stated that the Model S has worse than average reliability too.

Really too I just don't like tat attitude of Musk or Tesla either. Or the people who seem to buy them. They seem to be very much the Apple of the car world.

Welp time to sit back and get shit on by the Musk fanboys... Can't wait.

Exactly. Where do you think all of that electricity comes from? Most of it is still from coal, natural gas and oil. All gas prices rise so will electricity costs. The only way it could possibly happen was if we suddenly made a jump to all renewables now and then waited for gas to go up which will probably take another 10-15 years before you'll start seeing that kind of price difference.

I disagree with both of those points. Germany and Denmark both get much of their energy from renewable more so than fossil fuels with Solar and Wind being a big part of that (Denmark gets 40% of its energy from wind). Remember too on average Germany receives significantly less sun than the US does but they still manage. Renewable costs in the US are generally higher because we heavily subsidize fossil fuel companies where as renewable receive relatively few if any benefits.

Solar is efficient enough and improving all the time. Wind is quite efficient as well. Fossil fuel plants are by no means efficient either mind you.

In terms of cost, even with our bloated prices in the US and fossil subsides, costs are nearing parity. Renewables are still more but the gap is shrinking every year. As the price of coal goes up to it will become even closer.

Also you have to factor in total lifetime costs which add up.

Build a solar farm. Wait till it doesn't work. Take it down. Recycle. Replace.

Build a coal plant. Run it. Buy coal/ Ship it to the plant. Burn. Deal with the ash and other wastes. Pay for carbon sequestration or scrubbing. Doesn't work. Take it down. Recycle some. Spend a shit ton on cleaning up the site since it is toxic as hell. Replace.

When you factor in all those costs and remove subsidies even now solar is cheaper in many places than coal.

Either way we really have to move to renewables. For the sake of the climate and also simply because the shit is gonna start running out soon. Gotta plan and start now when we have time rather than the moment everything falls to shit.


That's easy. If gasoline was 3 times the cost it currently is , it would take exactly 64,350 miles before the tesla finally caught the fiesta.


not against renewables, just too costly in america ATM

The biggest issue with solar is every 8-10 hours a day the plant isn't making electricity. So you have the issue of somehow picking up that slack on the grid every single day. Which is why I like wind and hydro electric much more.

Liked for wall and text
Tl; Dr renewable hype?

Pls don't global warming I think you global warminged
Ye cleaner air is going to be great but we aren't doing half as much shit as media claims

That is an issue but it isn't as big of a one as you'd think but it is still problematic.

The solution tho as with everything is not to throw all your eggs in one basket. Multiple solutions will be needed. Nuclear. Wind. Solar. All should be a part of the renewable solution. Natural gas as well for the transition.

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Global climate change is real and it is a serious threat. It isn't just the media either saying that. But I won't go into that here. Like I said in the wall of text even if you don't count that fossil fuels are still running out so we need something else and if we can have cleaner air too why not?

As for my post I said I'm skeptical of the Model 3 and Tesla. I don't like them personally and renewables are a good idea and should be explored now not 50 years from now when shit starts to become scarcer

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That's still a long time. You also have to remember too that a battery in electric car doesn't last forever. It's range gets worse and worse the more cycles it goes through. Especially if you use those superchargers all the time.

I love the cars just for that centre console screen
Climate always changes, Romans had vineyards in the north of England



215 miles is not reasonable when a Ford Model T has a higher range (20mpg / 45mph / tank size 7 1/2 - 13 gallons)

They are no more eco friendly than a conventional car. You can thank americas coal plants for that.

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I told you I'm not debating it. Believe what you want about climate change. I won't attempt to try and change your mind.

The screen is neat yeah lol although in the car I honestly prefer physical switches/buttons.

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Also those batteries. Like where do you think all that lithium, cadmium, nickle all comes from?

I think electric cars will have a place moving forward but I think, and we are already seeing it tbh, that hydrogen will be the king.

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It's why I linked to the thread but eh

The only real thing that would thing that would annoy me is that it's near impossible to attempt maintenance yourself I'd presume