Why does linux always let me down?

Operating Systems & Open Source Linux
42

You do know how these arguments start do you?

IMHO:

It usually goes like this: somebody who isn't a regular Linux-user starts making unfounded claims, that are based on a lack of understanding.

Which in terms causes People who do understand to rectify the false claims.

It gets heated up because "Linux-bashing" is usually the result of being in denial of one's own ineptitude to adapt to something new.

( If I may exaggerate to illustrate the subconscious thinking pattern: If I can't work Linux than it must be bad, because I'm perfect)

----------------

Just imagine a Linux user that never had used Windows:

I can find the terminal

Where are my other Desktop-spaces

how do i install software there's no packet-manager

Wow the user-permissions are ridiculously complicated

I can't find any config files and what the heck is a registry

This GUI sucks why can't i install another ...


Now how would you react if that user where to immediately conclude, Windows is unfinished and not user-friendly.

44

I would like to start of that I am not a user who knows linux well yet. I am currently very far from it. I am trying to allocate the time to understand. But after a couple weeks of sniffing into it, and using it, and still not knowing many commands, I am enjoying it. So why do I have a better experience than you do? Concidering how long you know linux compared to me it should be the opposite.

Slappy, I think you are doing every year, over and over again the same mistake. Like many people do. Like I do. Falling into bad habbits. And I think your bad habbit is that you expect linux to fail everytime you use it. You don't want it to happen, but you expect it to happen. This is wise, but if you don't know that you expect it to happen, and espeacially if it became a habbit that you haven't overcome, then it is hard to identify and isolate it so that your expectations don't make your reality. If you want flash, my current solution is google chrome with it's integrated flash player. Done. Now I have a little flash problem still there, but I solved it, and I am going to try to make it work the way I want to, even though it already works. Now I've set up everything that it just works for me. Tailored to me. That doesn't mean others can't use my PC. My father is kinda the worst case scenario you could imagine who has to try out PC's and he is feeling more comfortable using linux. Unfourtunately he has to go through the troubles of using Windows, because it is the operating system he is going to see often in the next years, hopefully not forever. My brain explodes when I use Windows. It is complicated compared to gnome 3, even though I have grown up with Windows until now.

45

Sure. Look, I'm not trying to fight your data or arguments on this, but I still think you miss the point. I've come to respect you knowledge and perspective over many posts and time, but I disagree.

This has nothing to do with the US market, if there was a foreign distro that worked with my hardware and COMMON software out of the box I wouldn't have bitched in the first place.

I don't have hard numbers here, but I wonder how many of the "rest of the world" are running a illegitimate  copy of windows either directly or indirectly to actually use the software they need to use or play the game they want to play.

I wish I had the hard numbers on this, but I guess everyone else in the world happily obeys the US laws and international treaties.  .. Yeah, no, functional servers ship with linux. PC's are shipped with linux unless they want to play a game or use proprietary software.

I appreciate your drunken rant, but if you remove the 300 mil from your 6.5 billion, why is there even as question here? So if there are only 6.2 billion users, I cant get a consistent gaming experience, or god forbid use flash?

46

Yeah, I get that. I don't mind trying, working, learning finding other ways of doing things. I know I can find other ways of doing things like using flash in a browser.  What about a dozen old self contained games that I have, or the wife and kids have collected? My bad habit is expecting that after a decade I thought I could have a reasonable desktop experience. I can learn/use linux and have dicked around a lot over the years with moderate success. My goal is to replace windows with an open source solution that is acceptable to non-tek-savy users like my entire family. Really, there is only one choice and this I rebel against.

47

( If I may exaggerate to illustrate the subconscious thinking pattern: If I can't work Linux than it must be bad, because I'm perfect)

I like how you and most other linux users think completely the opposite way and talk the way it is implied that linux is perfect and it's always user's fault if he doesn't like something about it. My opinion on the matter is that software exists for the user, not the other way around. Software can always be user-friendly, powerful and customizable at the same time. If someone doesn't like using linux, it's developer's fault the same way it Microsoft's fault is someone doesn't like Windows.

It seems for me that linux generally follows a philosophy of giving user a set tools, that require learning to configure and use them, instead of providing a finished product with a gentle learning curve. And while some people may love the customizability it gives, when I see something that is not user friendly or doesn't look/work decently out of box, I just don't want to use it. I like when software is easy to use but at the same has capabilities to fulfill requirements of advanced users so that you can evolve the way you use it as you gain experience.

Also, let me tell you a secret: you can know linux and not like it as a desktop OS. You can read a couple of articles from this guy. Or this one. Or even those ones, mostly for lolz.

Everyone has things they like and hate about operating systems. In my case, Linux while not providing me with anything significantly superior to me compared to Windows and has a lot of major and minor faults everywhere that just make using it for me tedious and thoroughly unpleasant and there's no way for me as a user to get rid of them. 

And as a Windows user, I can write a long list of things I hate about it, but there are also many things that MS did right, which results mostly in the fact that provides me with a platform for everything I need from my computer. And after being Windows user for some time, I developed a couple of simple practices that reduce most of annoyances from Windows' shortcomings to a completely acceptable level. And that's probably the case for users of all OSs because none of them are perfect. Just don't go around implying that people, who don't consider your favorite OS's faults acceptable, are inferior to you in some way.

48

Hey fluffy, am I out of line? Yeah, this is how these arguments start. If shit worked there wouldn't be an argument.

My wife/mother/2year old shouldn't have to "find the terminal".

Guess what, they don't know what a packet manager is, or how to handle permissions, or how to alter a registry.

I guess I'm the asshole here, not YOU, you're clearly NOT the asshole when it comes to a 2 year-old who would like to click a mouse and have it work.

Nope, I'm clearly the problem...

Don't worry, he's almost 3 and I'm teaching him how to alter the registry.

49

 I appreciate your drunken rant

I appreciate your crooked perception of reality and your kind compliments (never been drunk in my life dude, I drink maybe two beers and one glass of wine per year, if even that, and you can try to provoke me as much as you want, won't work), but I'm not missing the point, you're either trolling or way behind on software knowledge. The most used office software in the world is LibreOffice and OpenOffice, not by a small margin, but by a two digit multiplication factor, the most used pixel pushing software in the world is GIMP, about in the same proportions, the most used web browser is mozilla firefox, the most used FTP client is filezilla, etc etc etc... all open source applications that are developed on open source operating systems, and often by popular demand ported for windows.

You assume too much:

I don't have hard numbers here

is the most accurate thing you've posted so far, because this assumption on your part is just insane:

I wonder how many of the "rest of the world" are running a illegitimate  copy of windows either directly or indirectly to actually use the software they need to use or play the game they want to play.I wish I had the hard numbers on this, but I guess everyone else in the world happily obeys the US laws and international treaties.

Oh wow, so the whole world outside of the US are software pirates and the US are law abiding angels that wouldn't harm a fly right?Do you even know that most people on earth don't speak English or any of the other handful of languages US software houses deliver crappy translations of their software in? Do you know that open source software in available in almost 200 languages?

if there was a foreign distro that worked with my hardware and COMMON software out of the box I wouldn't have bitched in the first place

"A FOREIGN distro"... that's the most cyber-redneck thing I've seen in a while, and I've seen some really hefty cyber-redneck things. No offence dude, but that's seriously besides your own point and seriously trollish, paradoxical and short-sighted. Could you please point me to the country where the folks live that speak C?

50

To be honest with you, many people not being "tek-savy" (I hate that generalizing term -_-) I know still don't install a program on Windows without getting often trouble. Windows way of installing the program is less consumer friendly than the package manager. We are just used to do it as we do it on Windows. But the package manager does everything for you. You just have to pick the program you desire. I am sure if a 3-5 year old is going to sneakily use my PC while I am on the terrace he will have more fun using my linux distro, than using Windows. On the gaming/Windows emulation part I unfortunately can't take a statement. No experience yet on my side. One more thing to mention is using the command line: It is not bad at all. It is convenient to use. I can understand that it could get scary to use for your family at the beginning, but it is actually pretty handy and not that difficult. And if they don't like it there is the package manager doing it for you.

51

IN summary:

hurr durr I am afraid of the terminal and can't do a simple enough google search on linux forums which have solutions to every known linux problem 

something something my wife grandma can't something windows perfect linux hard no workie workie

 

52

That is it, and look changer is the software in side, it is a full featured Linux destro, give it a shot.

53

So you are basically reiterating my point. I never said I had to have a US anything. YOU are interpreting my dissatisfaction with linux-gui as some nationalistic Microsoft love. Take the borderlines out of it and I still can't find a solution that is comparable to windows with all its flaws.

I ASSUME people want to play the latest game that works on windows but doesn't in linux. YES, it IS a world of thieves, in the US too.

I never said that I need office, I use open office for most things myself. I use 7zip and filezilla. My complaint is on the hardware support end. If you somehow think this is redneck approach, so be it.

Maybe you should go have a drink or two.

54

My complaint is on the hardware support end.

vs

So every other year I decide to try a linux distro thinking that they must have it working and user friendly. So I tried again tonight with mint, previously a couple ubuntu versions...

I dual booted onto a brand spanking new 120 gig ssd.  Partitioned 20 up front for the os, 4 on the back-end as a swap drive, and the rest in the middle for everything else.

I jumped through the hoops and configured it to my system, but it is SLOW and not user friendly at all. Here are the specs on the machine I put it on:

asus P8Z77-v Deluxe

3770K + 212

EVGA 670

16 gigs at 1600

Plenty of power, etc.

It is no where near as snappy as my win 8.1 install.  For example pausing and restarting a youtube video (fully buffered) takes an extra second on either end.

The gui is pretty, but it is still hard for me to find what I want, no less the rest of the family.

Let the war start again, but linux sucks for the everyday user with a wife and kids.

Where in your OP is it about hardware support? It's about dual booting it with Windows, "jumping through the hoops" of the "GUI", etc... but nowhere about hardware support, in fact, you pretty much confirm that it works, even though you say that the performance is not to your liking. How can it work if it doesn't have hardware support? Linux has way better hardware and software support than Windows, that's not even open for debate. Microsoft even had to submit over 10k lines of code the linux kernel to ensure compatibility of windows with linux (and that's not something microsoft would have had to do if they actually were the prevalent operating system). On the other hand, Windows has no support for the modern filesystems used in open source operating systems of all kinds, Windows has no support for other-than-x86-hardware, no support without installing additional drivers, etc...

So you are basically reiterating my point.

Not at all, you're reiterating yourself just to keep bitching about something you don't know well enough to even bitch about with any degree of credibility, and just so that you can rejoice to

Let the war start again

instead of contributing something useful.

YOU are interpreting my dissatisfaction with linux-gui as some nationalistic Microsoft love.

As I said before, point me to the country that speaks C.

As I've said before, comparison between linux and windows is futile, it's a fashionable trolling item by people that don't know linux enough to even know what it's about.

55

Ok. Perhaps the comparison between linux and windows is futile.  Why then, even bother making something like ubuntu or mint. They are designed to be windows replacements. My complaint is that they don't work out of the box.

Yes, it seems that hardware support is the major issue.

Yes, the OP was a complaint, not a request for help. If that is trolling so be it. You have typed more in this thread than everyone else combined, who is trolling who?

This is not a discussion about kernels or how well I know the intricacies of a terminal. This is a post about how after at least a decade of gui intensive distro's that I still can't offer a usable OS to my wife or mother other than windows or apple. Just because it is used by a lot of people doesn't make it more user friendly or functional for daily driving.

Flame-On!

56

exactly!

57

This is a post about how after at least a decade of gui intensive distro's that I still can't offer a usable OS to my wife or mother other than windows or apple

&

Yes, the OP was a complaint, not a request for help.

=>

If that is trolling so be it.

qed

why post it in the linux subforum if after 10 years of not succeeding in using it properly, you don't want help to learn to use it?

58

 

Dissentient: I like how you and most other linux users think completely the opposite way and talk the way it is implied that linux is perfect and it's always user's fault if he doesn't like something about it.

If you read my other posts i have pointed out several weaknesses that Linux has. My argument was about how allot of Windows users unfairly judge Linux out of ignorance, and you want to paint me as an Evangelist. ... I guess you are judging me just as unfairly.

By the way i think there's no such thing as perfect. I guess your mind reading isn't working too well.

 

slappy_D0: Hey fluffy, am I out of line? Yeah, this is how these arguments start. If shit worked there wouldn't be an argument.

Oh no you're wrong, there would be arguments even if everything would work flawlessly. There will always be arguments ;)

slappy_D0 : ...solution that is acceptable to non-tek-savy users

That's usually code for: must work just like windows, because non-tek-savy = can't be asked to learn anything new. By the way my parents use Linux, & they think wifi is magic & it took real convincing to get them to accept that emails don't require postage stamps.

slappy_D0: I guess I'm the asshole here, not YOU, you're clearly NOT the asshole...

Your words not mine ! I'm fairly certain that calling each other names serves not useful purpose.

59

No, you're right, my words and not fixing any problems, just frustration.

This is a problem with linux. If I have problem with windows I can go call them names. If I have issues with linux, all I can do is fight with the people that think it's infallible.

See previous 30,000 posts and threads.

61

Nope, because I tried again.  Aside from steam OS, I won't start this post again for ~2 years and we'll see if it works then.

62

looks delicious 

63

I've been using ubuntu for 4 years i and recently installed windows 7 on a seperate drive for gaming simply becuase the game market just isn't there yet. but after install ubuntu for so long then going back to windows what a pain in the ass. ubuntu it starts up you type your info 15 minutes later it boots you login your done. if you have amd (hopefully not nvidia becuase that can be days of "fun") you install gpu your done. windows you spend ages wait for it get to where you input what you want you wait and wait it reboots you type info and wait and wait. then you have to install drivers for everything its so time consuming. windows still bugs me with every little thing i guess it thinks i care i dunno. ubuntu has started though following microsoft in the that aspect its pretty anoying but you can disable it ( if you know how to do that in windows let me know) everyting is a re-learning curve for me now. no tab folders,no right click always on top option for the window i have open, nothing happens as fast. no gimp 2.9.1 unstable version (real slick btw) i know theres a terminal but i don't know any commands I really fell in love with using terminal in ubuntu. for me if your not gaming ubuntu is the best. I used to hate unity but am use to it now i don't really like the other desktop interfaces. I ran a test on various desktops that claimed to be light weight but unity consumes less engergy then the others ( great for laptops)