If I’m running Linux, then I’m probably working. So when I do have software crash then I’ve got things to do and want to get back to doing it as quickly as possible.
If I’m on windows, then I’m probably playing pubg. The one time I tried to use the pubg crash reporter the crash reporter crashed…
Let me prefix this, with: I love sending in reports! 
Perhaps I am odd. 
I often even prefer to write up an entire story line of what I had to eat that day, how I went to make coffee and decided to sit down at my computer and thought to myself: “What am I going to do today”.
Then it hit me!
I’m going to code that App I’ve always wanted to make. So I went along my merry way creating that really cool icon I want for my App. Because of course you gotta have an icon first!
But all of a sudden I stopped.
An expression of horror crossed my face. 
Segmentation FaultNo! 3 minutes since my last save! All of my work lost!
What am I going to do? Aaaahhhhh!
But lo and behold the program had a convenient bug report feature!
So I clicked the link, which opened up my e-mail client and I wrote you this email!
Please find attached screenshot, video reproducing the bug and a stack trace as well as some additional ramblings of things I’ve tried.
Kind Regards,
Cat
Lmao you completely ignored everything I said to go off on your wall of text tangent and soap box.
I’m not talking about companies forcefully taking data, I’m talking about willingly submitting bug reports. I believe you should feel obligated when utilizing free and open source software. You quoted my question of asking if anyone has asked the project owners what the data is, then proceeded to not answer it. You then sent an insulting rant, calling me “naive”. I’m not talking about “most ‘Free’ stuff”, I’m talking about open source projects that you enjoy using. If you believe that people contributing to GNU, BSD, and Linux are out to get you then you have bigger problems than bug reports and telemetry.
You don’t know me, so don’t throw labels. I’m participating in the discussion, one that’s been beaten to death and that the little tin foils take over and start beating their war drum every time it comes up.
Regarding Microsoft, you and the others always have theories and hypothetical fantasies. Come back when they’ve been breached or actually leaked data.
You’re really great at participating in discussions and not throwing labels. 
Microsoft’s bugtracker, which would contain vulnerability details as well as references to user telemetry and potentially the payloads themselves, of was stolen back in 2013. They didn’t notify anybody.
They also had 33 million hotmail/outlook.com passwords stolen two years back.
I know, thank you.
But I thought telemetry didn’t exist until Windows 10? 
Interesting nonetheless, thank you for the information. I wasn’t aware of this, and if they kept it hush hush I assume that not a lot of people were reporting on it.
Lol’d at
Brutal, savage, rekt…
It did, previous telemetry was called the “Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program”. Microsoft allowed users to opt-out of that one.
I was joking 
Really good article, though. Thank you for that.
The way you questioned “you shouldn’t have to send crash reports on open source software” implied that you think not sending them is not legitimate.
But clearly you’re backing out of that now. Or, at least trying to have your cake and eat it too…
Clearly. And i’ve listed several reasons why that might not be possible, desirable or legal - and how expecting said bug reports means you’re not philosophically about FREE software at all. You’re implying that use of said software is morally conditional on sending bug reports. That’s not what FREE software is about.
And just because something is released under a free license, doesn’t mean that it isn’t potentially malicious.
Lol.
You’re refusing to acknowledge the idea that NOT sending bug reports when they aren’t actually clear on what is being sent is a valid stance.
And you’re throwing labels. 
I used Microsoft as an example, but they’re not exclusive in this. The only reason i used them specifically is because they’re actually used in the business world in LARGE quantity and are currently ramming this telemetry down your throat.
It’s legally questionable and they’re likely going to get sued eventually over it.
As i have stated repeatedly: i have no issue sending bug reports if the data being sent is made clear to me as the end user.
I’m not backing out of anything, my point was you don’t think you should have to send bug reports, how else are they going to know what crashes on what.
Stop putting words in my mouth.
You’re running outside of the scope of this conversation. Free as in freedom, you can still have an obligation to support the devs with data.
Inb4 “SEE YOU BELIEVE NSA SHOULD TAKE EVERYTHING”
I asked first, label maker, why not ask the devs.
“I shouldn’t have to”
Enjoy your “computing like it’s 1986” or whatever.
Don’t send bug reports, that’s you’re decision. But don’t bitch when your kernel 2.14 doesn’t work on the AMD RX 880
That’s not my problem. Other users who are willing or able to send bug reports (as they are clearly not going to contain corporate IP for example) can be used. Or they can run their own test systems. Or whatever.
That’s not my problem. Me not sending data is no different from the application not being used as far as the developer is concerned for free software. They lost no revenue, etc.
FREE SOFTWARE does not have conditions like that. If you think that’s not fair or whatever then newsflash: you’re really not about free use of open source software without attaching arbitrary conditions to its use. In your case above, you’re wanting to attach data collection rights to it. Which is no different to facebook or google.
And no, i should not have to ask the devs. If you want me to send you data then you better fucking tell me what it is you’re collecting. I’m not going to put the dialog box on hold, send an email to a mailing list or get on IRC before rebooting the system or re-loading the app.
That’s living in fucking fantasy land.
But people do. My point is community, not living like a robit.
Lol funny it seems like it’s reality.
But whatever. Good talk.
Yes, people do. But the license doesn’t. You either agree with the license that doesn’t have those conditions, or you should perhaps create your own facebook / google like license for your software that does.
You think arbitrary undocumented data collection is OK. Many of us do not.
Can you point to where I said that?
I’m going to act like a pedantic little child now, because you’re running away with bullshit now.
ergo, you think that collecting data from users of free software is to be expected.
my complaint, as stated from my first post in this thread is that i have no problem with that so long as it is clear what is sent when i hit send.
you’re taking issue with my stance, ergo you think that the requirement for disclosure is irrelevant and thus arbitrary undocumented data collection is something that free software users should bend over and submit to.
I said you should feel obligated to submit bug reports. I asked if people have a problem with what’s collected or want to know what’s collected, try messaging the devs.
I never said I approve of indiscriminately grabbing data. I even offered an anecdote on Fedora where it shows you what’s running and you can review what’s being sent.
It seems you have the problem.
Anyway, we’re not even arguing the same thing. So disagree to disagree for me.
I agree with you that the data being sent should be available in the report window. (Like a button that says “what’s being sent?” or something, can’t be too hard to implement.
Yes. And my stance is that messaging the devs should not be a requirement. It should be disclosed up-front.
If it isn’t disclosed up front: why? If you have nothing to hide, why not disclose up front? As i stated earlier, it may even help me debug the application myself or even submit a patch.
Not disclosing the telemetry sent has only 2 real root causes in my opinion:
I don’t want to send my data to either of the above.
Definitely not. The data is already in a buffer ready to send.
It’s either pure laziness, stupidity or lack of trustworthiness… or a combination of all three.
For most projects, I think it’s pure laziness.
I’ve wiresharked quite a few bug reports before and they’ve shown nothing sketchy.
I’d probably agree with that. Or ignorance of situations where the end user may have concerns over IP being disclosed that they are not the owner of or legally authorised to disclose.
But that’s giving benefit of the doubt, and I’ll only do that for developers that i actually deem trustworthy.
I don’t trust stupid people much…
edit:
and yeah, i shouldn’t have to run wireshark either; once its gone over the wire its too late. all because some dev is too lazy to dump a buffer to the screen… or a log file…
don’t get me wrong. I don’t believe open source projects are trying to fuck me over. this discussion is more about principles and risk mitigation rather than my viewpoint on open source software as it currently stands.