I get the point, and I fully approve of telemetry being opt-out by default so long as it’s fully transparent what’s being sent, including payloads. Telemetry is incredibly useful stuff, it makes software better. That’s fine for everybody else, I just don’t feel comfortable sending it myself. And yes, that is selfish.
I don’t think anyone is out to get me specifically, but I do everything within reason, that isn’t a huge pain in the ass, to protect my privacy. Disabling telemetry is one of those things.
I would turn off telemetry even if it used differential privacy, the implementation was fully open and code audited so my anonymity was reasonably assured, and I could inspect the payload. I don’t want to send telemetry to anyone ever. But that’s just me.
Hm… Well, I appreciate your response. I don’t understand it, but I can respect it (this is a lot better than the roasting babies bit, btw ).
Regardless of what is or isn’t sent, you’re not comfortable because of the Wild West mentality of data handling (not putting words in your mouth, just my interpretation).
Fair enough. I apologize for my aggressive but semi-loving Inevermeanttocomeoffthatwaybrowestillfriends? attitude.
Well, burning toddlers to death was perhaps a bit incendiary of me.
I do feel strongly about open-source, have contributed to many projects over the years, and you’re probably running code I worked on in your computer right now.
I feel just as strongly about minimizing the info I provide to “the cloud”, is all.
I’d like to make a point about privacy and sending these reports. I think we all understand that there isn’t anywhere near as much privacy as there used to be. I also believe that reasonable privacy in this day isn’t about not sharing data about yourself, but being comfortable with the amount of data you do share. There comes a point where you need to become a hermit to have “enough” privacy.
I block faceballs and twatter with a pihole. Any additional data they gather on me is pretty gimped, so I’m okay with that. I also send bug reports to most Open Source projects. Not because I trust them with the data, but because I’m supporting their development. There is an element of trust with this bug report, but it’s more of a patronage of sorts. I see it as an alternative to a monetary contribution, because I’m providing them with resources to help them solve a problem.
A few people have hit on this, but I view sending the auto bug reports as a convenience. Since the mid 2000’s (from now) I’ve gained in terms of my problems being solved. Nearly every time I’ve sent in an auto bug report to the devs of ANY operating system, I’ve gotten an update days, or at max weeks later that solved the problem. And like I said, this has happened on OSes as old as XP for me.
I’m mostly Linux now, but I do have to run Windows for my wife, and the few games I just won’t give up that are on Windows. I can’t. Alot of them hold special places in my nostalgia. And a few of them I can play with my kid. That’s important for me. So Windows stays.
But no matter what OS I’m using, I think I owe it to the developers to send any auto bug reports I can. It helps them improve their product. And that helps me in the long run.
I don’t hold anything personal or important on my computers anyway, and I regularly re-install my operating systems every few months because I like to tinker, and break things. And it’s a good habit every now and then. Can you tell I’m an old school PC user yet?
But because I don’t hold anything personal on my PC, I really don’t give a shit if my personal data is sent to the makers of my OS. It’s literally not gonna do them any good anyway. Most the time, my machine is just barebone with a few programs like games, or anything like that. And as far as my wife’s work programs? No personal info there either. Most of it is just stupid math. Hope they like just pointless math for children.
So I believe, it’s my duty for using said software, whether paid or free, to send back bug reports. Cause it helps the devs, and in the long run, gives me a better product to use. And usually eventually makes it more stable.
And who’s to blame for that? Yourself? Your individual effort and responsibility? Not exactly. The giant’s set the standards and defaults, which even open source somewhat follows. (Error reporting can be an example) It is up to the giants, how much of privacy people have and the limits of that privacy, since it’s global software.
I disagree, I think @SgtAwesomesauce is indeed personally to blame for the slow progress of OSS, due to him withholding that valuable data.
Shame on him, Shame I say…
WIth wider adoption and development of RSS it can include browser-like behaviour, which it already does and possibly without flaws of a browser and thereby error reporting would be respective to it’s platform. (And thereby it’s development)
Unlike crossplatform browsers which grab everything, from everywhere
Hmm, I suppose. The issue to me is that getting people to change is like reasoning with an angry, hungry bear. Most of your job is just trying to not get killed.
Then kill them first. (not literally, either kill their ideas, by giving them an easier shortcut for the same thing or at least try to influence the path they are on, in some way) Which is what foss enthusiasm is all about (sort of)
Then it would be just another web browser that people wouldn’t use.
People do simply use the net to read news articles, some remotely control servers, others run progressive web applications. An RSS tool would need a fuck-ton massive amount of tooling to even becoming close to what modern web browsers do. And at that point, it is no longer just an RSS tool.
What could be easier, than just going to a URL? Aside from beaming the information directly into my head.
Wrong. Go install firefox on windows, then try it out on linux or any other platform, compare the error reports.
It does not have to be exactly like a web browser (some of it probably has to, the other part can be whatever). That’s what’s nice about programming and programs, they differ.
It would, that’s how the whole idea of RSS started.
Something like RSS bookmarks would do the same thing as browser bookmarks. (faster and without opening a web-browser) The program could be released in two versions. One with a web-engine (to gain traction) and still offer one without a web-engine.
As above, this should be standard - give me a “details to be sent” button to review. If you (as in, the random developer in question, not directed at you specifically) “don’t get” why i want that, then i’m guessing you “don’t get” a lot of other user privacy vs. data collection concerns either. And that makes me worried you have a cavalier attitude towards my data.
Given the large number of data breaches in the news (of stuff that REALLY should have been encrypted at least), that’s not an unreasonable attitude to have in my opinion.
In any case, additionally, there’s a history of even Microsoft totally half-assing data collection by doing retarded things like sending memory dumps or other potentially sensitive information in the clear over the internet.
But in any case, if there’s a button - i click it before hitting send to review.
If you’re not willing to let me see the data you’re collecting then its a judgement call on my behalf as to whether or not i’ll trust you.
My level of trust for most developers is pretty marginal. Especially for those who won’t share what they’re collecting with me. Because i see so much shitty software with exceedingly stupid decisions or outright flagrant disregard for security of user data.
The alternative is actual free software. What you are describing (assuming you subscribe to the notion that user consent for data collection should be a given for open source projects) is no better than facebook or google - “your use of the software is conditional on us collecting your data”.
And i’ll say that with that statement you’re being very naive. Fact is, most “Free” stuff on the internet very much is out to get you. Just because something is under a free license, doesn’t mean it isn’t.
If you really aren’t “out to get me” then why the issues with showing the data i am about to send? It may actually help ME diagnose the problem myself!
I’m fully aware of the original purpose behind GNU, etc. I’ve been using open source for 23+ years at this point. But the above points remain…
edit:
Additionally, in a workplace for example, any data i create during my work is property of the company. My employment contract may actually prevent me from sharing the data you are collecting, without breaching my employment contract.
It’s a lot more complicated than “i’m the developer, i’m entitled to crash reports whether you like it or not!”.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Microsoft actually gets sued over that sooner or later, with their current mandatory telemetry stance.
Hypothetical example: company A is working on top secret project X. MS Software crashes and send code-fragment/graphic/master encryption key, etc. with confidential IP in it. Data is leaked within Microsoft to outside world…
Far fetched? Maybe. But Microsoft are putting themselves in a potentially compromising position there…
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