I’m not sure how you interpret the current discussion being off-topic.
The OP asked about a case that would house two AIO radiators.
You are the one that dragged the discussion into the merits of air vs. water.
I don’t game nor do I run Windows. So gaming performance on air is not a concern for me. I just need to support my science projects with both cpus and gpus.
Full size case(maybe larger if possible)
Plenty of hard drive space
Plenty of fans for air movement
couple of spaces for at least two AIO liquid cooling(CPU and GPU)*** Clear side panel.
Doesn’t need to be cheap
Honestly, I might be moving in the same direction with this new pc build. I already have a corsair obsidian(forgot which model) that houses my Intel build. I currently have 5 hard drives in this case with room for more. I might skip the hard drive space in my next case decision; plan to convert my current intel machine to a NAS setup.
One mistake I see many people do, is that they are hoarding old drives. Thus they absolutely cannot imagine buying smaller, since how would they fit their entire 6 disk array of 3.2 TB of data?
Don’t get me wrong; HDDs still have a place, but just not worth buying anything less than 8 TB @ $150 these days, and for most people that is more space than you will probably ever fill up. Even worse, 8 TB drives at 150 MB/s transfer means around 15 hours for filling that up, best case. Just loading 100 GB is 11 minutes of wait time compared to NVMe speeds of 5-15x as fast (1 minute instead of 11, ooooh yeeeeaaaah…). It is painfully obvious HDDs are no longer able to keep up.
Bottom line, if you need more than 2 harddrives (For RAID1 is still nice) today, you need to really consider a dedicated NAS and how to optimize your data usage. This is a large tangent to the topic though.
Here’s the issue…
This is your opinion. And it’s a valid option…
Also a valid option is to also have cases with decent HDD capacity and not having to deal with extra box and cabling and so on and so forth. Some people just enjoy everything in one box. Yes, I can buy an 8TB drive, or I can just keep the setup I already have and no matter it have 5 drives, it’s fine. I don’t have to redo stuff just cause the mo0dern cases decided I need to use NAS if I want more than 2 drives.
Counterpoint: throwing away functioning tech just because it’s old is wasteful, both economically and ecologically.
Also… who cares how long it would take to fill up from nothing? That’s not typically how people use drives. Also I strongly disagree with the NAS comment. A NAS is really good at accessing data between multiple devices. I set one up for my parents in the day because they wanted to watch films from a central machine on other machines around the house. Great usecase for network storage. Someone with one machine with lots of data has no reason to put any of that data on the network, it’s perfectly fine being attached to the singular machine that needs to access it.
Whoa, lots of stepped toes here, I’ll see if I can address everyone. The TLDR; I stand by what I said, but as with everything PC hardware related - you do what works for you.
I have everything in one box, and no cables. In fact, with m.2 you can have up to eight of them with the right components and configurations.
Indeed, but if you are building a new system, you should almost certainly be able to shrink those 5 drives to 2 or so. It’s like my old grandma whom loved to cook with an old pot with a broken handle; it is perfectly o.k. to throw out things when they have reached E.O.L and if you can make things easier for yourself… Why shouldn’t you?
In this context that drive was mostly for single drive bulk storage use. If we need SMR and NAS-suited drives now, well, sorry to break it but why not just pay double the money for faster, more reliable SSD storage then? Only place HDDs are more reliable storage than SSDs, is if the HDD is in cold storage - at which point speed performance does not matter, nor does it matter how reliable the HDD is when running since it will be spun up very rarely. For everything else, we have blazing fast and reliable SSD tech.
Note that I am not saying HDDs are dead, but when faced with the decision to buy an SSD or a HDD, SSD is almost always the better option these days, when factoring in everything including price.
The problem with that counter point, ok, so you’re building a new machine? With a 2TB NVMe and then 3.2 TB of salvaged HDDs? That sounds kind of silly, no offense, but why not spend an extra $60 on a 4TB HDD for secondary storage then? Especially since you will probably spend more than $1000 on the other parts.
Then there is the fact that all tech has lifespans. It is not unreasonable to replace an aging PC, nor is it unreasonable to replace an aging HDD. HDD especially are the most likely part to fail in your system. So, cycling them for bigger storage on a regular basis is pretty much common sense.
If it is a single machine, sure. But a NAS would still help quite a bit, either as a cold storage USB cabinet or something more online. Separating the NAS portion also makes maintenance easier, for one thing.
I see you have never tried to edit 8k raw footage on an HDD before. This actually matters more than you think, but it’s one of those “Need to experience it to understand it” things. Like OLEDs, or 144 Hz screens, booting on HDD vs SSD or going from 2 cores to 6 or 8.
The HDD loading is “fine”. The SSD loading is mindblowingly fast.
Just thought I would throw in a recommendation for the be quiet! Silent Base 802. Lot of space to work with, plenty of room for radiators if you want, plenty of space for HDDs as well. You can have a solid front panel if you prefer reduced noise over thermals or a mesh panel. Personally I use mine with the solid because although things ran cooler with the mesh front my GPUs fans still revved up the same amount regardless of which panel was on. So since I am picky about noise I just went with the solid panel.
Really though as someone previously mentioned cases are super personal preference because it just comes down to what you prefer the looks of that has the feature set you want.
As for reducing the number of HDDs in a rig by moving to a NAS I would recommend thinking about how you would be accessing it. A NAS is great, but if you don’t have ethernet runs in your house and wifi signal is meh then it may not be a good option. Then another thing if your networking equipment happens to live in the room you sleep in due to it being the most central room you may not want to cram a noisy NAS in there lol. Didn’t really consider the noise aspects when I built mine and then realized “Oh this is quite annoying to have in the same room as me”. Have been working on quieting the beast for a while now, but in the meantime it’s more functioning as cold storage and getting spun up when I need it. Just some things I wished I thought a bit more clearly about before I built mine, because had I done so I probably would of gone about building it differently.
That’s correct, but HDDs are still insanely cheap compared to SSDs, not to mention fast NVMes. Even the basic SATA drives are like 4 tines more expensive. I mean I can drag multiple hard drives from build to build… I can do the same with a nas, but that is basically an entire second system I need to take care of.
On the other hand I have been considering moving my HDDs to a nas and making my system totally silent, so I fully understand what you mean. I just think there is merit in wanting to keep your storage right inside your case…
This is why I always recommend Synology and other purpose built NAS devices; removes the barrier of having to think about it or manage it really beyond a bare minimum and doubly makes managing your main machine easier when not having to consider your long term data needs.
Except I haven’t built a “new” machine since 2011. I have a Theseus’s Ship of incremental upgrades in that time. I think the assumption that I’m building entirely new machines regularly misses my entire point about not throwing out hardware and replacing it without need.
You’re still offering a solution in search of a problem just because you want me to throw out some perfectly good drives for some reason. A NAS would also not be simpler to maintain than what I have.
I assure you my word documents, excel documents and films load from my 10 year old HDD and my PCIe 4.0 NVME drive in exactly the same amount of time as far as my human ability to determine time is concerned.
You don’t need to patronisingly assume that I’m some kind of luddite who doesn’t know what an SSD is (or that I don’t edit high res video, for that matter) – I just use different drives for their appropriate use cases.
I’m sorry, I still am not over the fact that you’re saying “need to experience it to understand it” about SSDs, as if it’s like 2013 or something lmao.
Good SSDs are about twice the cost as good HDDs in $/GB. Cheap SSDs are about 3x-3.5x as expensive. However, in terms of affordability you can buy a dog slow 8 TB HDD or a 2 TB NVMe SSD for roughly the same amount of money, or a good 4TB HDD vs a good 2TB NVMe for roughly the same amount of money.
So you have not updated your case in all of this time then? Because that’s the premise of this thread - new case. And here I’m saying, plan for the future, unless you’re building a NAS chances are pretty high that case will take up a lot of dead, unnecessary space for the most part of the 2020s. If you’re still happily using your old case I’d still recommend you replace a couple of those drives to a single larger one, but you do you.
No, I am speaking from experience here. Hard drives are one of the most likely components to fail in a computer. It’s an unfortunate fact. Your “perfectly good drives” are pretty close to dying if they’ve been around since 2011. If you care about that data, buy a new one and transfer that data. If you don’t care, why the heck do you have the drive in the first place, makes no sense other than bragging rights I suppose? 2TB HDDs are $40 these days.
To reiterate, if you are to buy a new case in 2021, then I would not worry about HDD space anymore - those are getting phased out. If you’re sticking to your old case but upgrading other parts, there is no reason to worry about it. And if you are getting a NAS, get a prebuilt one, it will be the least headaches. As always, you have the best knowledge of your usecase so you do you.
I’ve seen a few recommendations for the Fractal Torrent. While it is a great case for air and custom loop, it has really bad support for AIOs. You’ll need to use a bracket for the front, thereby losing the 180mm fans, which is fine - but somewhat defeats the purpose of the case. Even with that accounted for, the only other place to mount an AIO would be the rear exhaust, which is only up to 1x140, I believe. The case has no top airflow, and you don’t want to mount an AIO rad on the bottom below a pump. Also, it only has two HDD mounts, though you can get a lot of hard drive space out of two drives these days.
I have changed my case, to one that has enough drive cages for me.
If my hard drive fails, it fails. That’s what backups are for. A drive can fail at any time, you shouldn’t only be mitigating potential data loss in old drives. I treat my 980 Pro in exactly the same way I do my old WD Black. There are currently no signs of that being an issue at the moment. When it becomes an issue I’ll deal with it, but my original GTX 580s and multiple CPU coolers have died in the time these drives have been going strong.
I don’t know why you’d think I have data for “bragging rights”. That concept makes less than no sense to me. Also… you are now advocating me spending $40 on exactly the same capacity and speed device that I already have? Just why? When this drive eventually dies, I’ll probably just buy another mechanical drive and still have the same drive requirement that I already had. I also have other requirements that are being phased out like an optical drive, so I can see myself not changing my case for a long time now. Enough PC users are demanding that features be removed for the same price that case manufacturers are all too happy to take the extra price margin. It makes no sense to me to cheer for fewer options.
I will not buy a NAS unless my use case dramatically changes. In fact, honestly if I ever need to share data across my network I am more likely to set up a SAMBA share and my current desktop will become my NAS.