@kewldude007 et al.
This isn’t new, it’s been like this since Teksyndicate which is why I originally made this post.
It got better, but there are still people who do not understand that this is a forum, not reddit, and it has perhaps gotten worse again recently.
Generally we are light on moderation and let the users reflect what they want, but perhaps we’re to light on this. For example it’s not uncommon (for me at least) to agree with a flagged post but not remove the post, this still negatively impacts the user, but as it might not be seen by the wider community maybe this direction isn’t the best, and more direct action should be taken on a wider range of topics. As an example, there have been posts which were flagged (legitimately) which I have agreed with, but not deleted, because the reply the person has also made stopped to the same level as the flagged post. In that case, I either leave them up, or I have to go in and start deleting posts. The latter has happened on occasion when people can’t keep their cool, and it’s people on both “sides” for lack of a better term.
The team is relatively small as @MisteryAngel mentioned and I know there has been occasions where flags sit for a while before being actioned, especially during work hours where you can’t properly look at them. Leaders alleviate this a little bit as they have some powers to threads like locking them and we have some good active leaders, but again not many.
On the subject of moderation, rules, and misbehaving forum users it would be interesting to get opinions on what people would like to see. The last change we made I think was an improvement.
I might make a separate topic to discuss this, as it seems like it might be worth while to get more input. Thoughts?
Over the past few years civil discourse on the internet has taken a nose dive. That has leaked into here.
This problem isn’t unique to this forum or community. Memes and shit flinging have become the norm all over the place.
I have seen other sites require a one month waiting period before you can post. It would help with spam and initial knee jerk first posts.
Trial membership periods also helps against low effort posting.
Now the downside: those will scare away some people.
This isn’t an advocation for the above ideas but putting those ideas out there.
When I first started with this community there was a problem with MS users fighting with *nix users. The roles reversed a while back. Two wrongs do not make a right and should be enforced. The best OS discussions I have seen have been in the lounge generally.
Removing the blog section is another suggestion. There have been users who have used it for very personal threads. This doesn’t belong here and only invites negativity.
Low effort threads should be more than a lock but a warning.
Get rid of the policy section and keep the news area. People get confused by the sections.
The forum has gotten pretty paranoid. L1T show covers and is critical of bad policy. But, they appear to live normally as should everyone. This very well could be scaring new users.
Tags are good and keep using tags for threads.
I get it, and I appreciate the response and feedback. I admit I have been overly sensitive as of late.
However, I have been personally attacked and threatened on the Internet before, for my personal and (somewhat) political beliefs. I used a gray area of legality to defend myself, and the issue resolved itself. Within the past month I’ve been called a Verizon shill and a Microsoft shill, by two different people. The seemingly apparent hostility in which those “insults” were made was one step away from some psycho throat beard attempting to dox me and threaten my livelihood.
Just saying, it’s more than a little bothersome at this point, especially since I’ve not harmed anyone. Being labeled as someone with “Stockholm syndrome” or a “shill” is pissening. Maybe my solution to these problems is to just get off the Internet.
Anyway, thanks again.
It’s something we likely need to improve (And I’ve brought the subject up on our mod thread), We have historically been light on moderation and instead for the most part centred around self moderation etc. The flag system is good for this but requires participation, which has varying levels of success.
Perhaps being lighter on moderation worked before, but less so now and likely requires some changing on how we handle things. I certainly have some new perspective on how some of these posts people make are affecting people, so that input is appreciated.
Interestingly this reminds me of being called stasi territory for asking if something was appropriate. Which is interesting considering our generally fairly open moderation makes us the secret police…
But this is why I may make a thread about it, as it would be interesting to get input on how people think this community should be moderated, stricter action/self moderation, moderate through PMs all the time, or public moderation, etc.
Its a difficult balance to get, and id probably agree that as of late our balance may be off in regards to the people who are here.
A thousand times yes.
That would help me in more way than one.
Are you looking into expanding the moderation team @Eden? Maybe what would help with some of the issues.
I was trying to figure out how to say what I thought, but @kewldude007 already jumped on that grenade for us all.
I’ve left this site for several months before because AMD/Linux circlejerkery has become the new Politics and is as beyond dull and divisive as that ever was. I was bored of the low effort threads, such as a certain user’s proclivity to simply title a thread as a piece of tech news, drop a single link, and then move on from said thread with no effort to discuss or engage. I haven’t seen this of late because I honestly haven’t bothered to look outside of the Lounge. Which brings me to the next issue.
the Lounge keeps this forum alive.
we’re on a forum, connected to a Youtube channel, which is headed up by 3 people. With lives. And jobs. there is going to be slow periods. The Lounge keeps us all active and it’s the reason I’m still here. I have less than zero interest than AMD’s new Thing2.0 or how to incredibly convoluted GPU passthrough procedures. I AM interested in having a place to relax and act silly. Coincidentally, if it weren’t for the Lounge and having a place to let off steam about the Reddit worthy circlejerking and general BM, a whole lot more threads would be locked and you’d be knee deep in personal attack threads.
Tl;dr: the occasional talk of “closing” the Lounge would kill this site. Period.
What i think would make the most difference is having the moderation be more transparent. Instead of having all moderation actions or discussions be behind closed doors you could maybe be more public about it.
The only real time we see the mods doing mod things is when a thread gets really bad and a mob is basically forming. This does create this illusion of a secret police but more in the term of a ghost you never see twice.
Also more mods would probably be a good thing as there has been several times where ive flagged a post and not gotten a reply in almost 2 days
I know why it’s not there, but not how to get it back. The problem is that I’m not really interested in re-opening the whole tekxit can of worms to explain it, but let’s just say that the whole thing left certain community members more salty than the people who were actually involved in the whole situation. We need to move on completely from it if we’re going to have any hope of bringing back the community spirit here.
Regarding changes I’d like to see, I can’t believe I have to say this, but advocation for violence is not free speech and should not be allowed on the forum. No matter if it’s a forum member or not, advocating violence leads to people making bad decisions and innocent people getting hurt.
Violence because you disagree with someone’s opinion and policy changes is exactly how you lose your right to vote. (In the USA, that is)https://forum.level1techs.com/t/post-your-tech-cringe/113501/1395?source_topic_id=124524
If I were running things, which I’m not (so feel free to completely disregard this and I won’t be offended), I would have a post moderation guidelines document. You can explain what’s okay and what’s not. From there, when posts get flagged, or you come across posts in your own reading which violate the guidelines, you’ll be able to refer to policy on what to do. Whether it’s delete, leave up or message the user to remind them that their message is not appropriate for whatever reason.
I’ve been on the receiving side of a couple flags (thread linked above), which, for the life of me, I couldn’t figure out how I violated rules. The post was deleted, so it’s hard to say for sure if I’m in the right.
Maybe you should expand your team? I’m sure there are a few qualified people.
If you’re referring to politics, yes. I think you should expand that to include advocation of violence.
I disagree with this because there are many people who are legitimately trying to learn. This could become a problem if they want to join and ask questions, but find they can’t post their question until 30 days later.
This is why I try to stay out of the Microsoft section. If I post in there, I’ll inevitably tell someone to try Linux. That’s why I try to stay away from those posts.
Yeah, you’re absolutely right on this. I’ve been starting to think about posting something along the lines of “rehab for tinfoil hats”
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: When you talk on forums like this, the other people appear to be just text on a screen. That can easily make you dehumanize them. The problem there is that you easily become the evil person by attacking that “demon”.
Try not to take that crap personally, I think you’re a swell person, and I don’t care what OS you use. I like you for you!
I think that the flag system will alert you of controversial topics. I’ve passed by posts that are, by the letter of the law, not okay, but they’re not angering anyone and not really causing a problem, so I haven’t flagged them. That said, when someone posts something inflamatory or that is causing a problem, it will absolutely get a flag from me.
Some people don’t understand that this isn’t the real world and you and the rest of the moderation team decide the rules the rest of us need to play by.
I’d like to see a rule against this. 95% of threads are useful, but a few have a problem with this and we need to be able to solve this.
I’m going to disagree with you, given that the lounge moves too fast for me to keep up with it. I think that thread should really be a discord channel, but it’s not a huge issue to me.
With the current moderation staff, I doubt they’ll be able to handle the load of it. Remember that moderators are people too. They have lives, jobs and want to browse the forums they moderate without spending the whole day dealing with crap as well.
EDIT: wow, meant to just reply to a couple things, but trust me, this is worth a read.
I know. Is why i also said that more mods would be a good thing.
That’s my subtle way of suggesting we hold nominations.
Of course, that’s with the current mod staff approval though.
Just noticed that we’ve got two mods who have been inactive for a while, so our staff count is down to 9, not including the glorious three.
that sounds like personal preference.
this is an odd request, if I’m honest. Where has this happened? Where has it happened with the potential to become an IRL issue?
This is an exceedingly vague notion and has the potential to be widely abused. “Mummy he hit me” etc.
It is. I just thought I should mention that I don’t use the lounge and I’m here all the time.
I can see that. My issue is that a fair number of people here don’t see a problem with advocating violence. I linked, just below that paragraph, a forum thread where it happened. A couple posts were deleted by moderation, but the long and short of it was that someone was advocating for killing the sitting FCC Chairman because of his stance on NN. I responded telling him that it was okay to disagree and think he’s a terrible person but that it’s not okay to advocate for killing him. That post was removed as well.
Regarding the vague notion: This was a clear call for violence and could not be interpreted as anything else. Since I don’t have a screenshot, I can’t expect you to trust me.
I don’t know. Perhaps let people talk about what they want instead of forcing your morals and opinion on everyone. There are so many White Knights and SJWs here that you can’t have a genuinely interesting and fun discussion/argument because there is always someone that gets offended or feels the need to right your opinion. If you don’t like something then just stop replying to that person. Or mute the topic but leave other people alone.
To be honest the moderation here is terrible. The most interesting threads are all locked because special snowflakes can’t handle any criticism.
“I don’t like where this is going.” - Lock thread!
“I disagree with you” - Lock Thread!
“I am offended by this.” - Lock Thread!
“This is very old” - Lock Thread!
“I find this disturbing” - Lock Thread!
You lot are like chinese gov constantly wanting to control what people say on the internet. And the more you control what people say the more boring this forum will be. Yes people are leaving because politics is not allowed, Necro is not allowed, NSFW is not allowed, anything you don’t like is not allowed. In the end you may as well have no forum at all.
Do what you want, but don’t cry when people leave.
I trust that it HAPPENED, no doubt. Whether it was hyperbole or not is what I’m pointing to. The fact that we’re even discussing it shows that interpretations differ WILDLY in text and having blanket laws will undoubtedly lead to people being punished for far vaster crimes than they even imagined. Nothing is final yet but I’m not for straying into areas where the mods will have to try and discern true meaning of a post AS WELL AS if the post breaks other rules.
99% of the requests for locking posts that I have seen are leveled when it’s painfully obvious any coherent desire to discuss the actual topic has gone, and the thread is now a fight.
Seems clear that there’s disagreement with that idea. If you don’t want it, we don’t need to have it, I just think it can be positive. Maybe I’m too optimistic?
You already start on the wrong foot with that kind of mentality, and I agree with you for the most part, but having the same arguments over and over again is not going to change people’s minds. Internet fights are the most unproductive and funniest things to watch because in the end nothing gets resolved.
A proper discussion is fine, but one side yelling snowflake, and the other saying capitalist scum is a waste of space.
Problem is people don’t and that’s why threads have to be locked when it turns into a turd flinging competition.
No this is a forum that has rules, you are in someones house so to speak, if you don’t like how things are run you can talk about it, but don’t break something to get the owners attention.
That’s what the L1T discord was until L1T came to be and it was opened up to the broader forum as the official discord
The one mentioned previously serves this function now but I am exlcusive in who joins. That may sound elitist but that is how it’s going to stay
Here are my opinions so far. Some have already been stated, so take those as a reaffirmation.
I personally believe that this would be useful, but sadly it is not possible with the software we use currently.
Also, sadly, not possible with the way things are set up.
If you see something that needs moderation, please flag it. We are not omniscient.
While this is a Tech forum, we would also like to have a sense of community and personal bond/growth. Removing the blog section would diminish that, I feel. If you see a thread that doesn’t belong, or that you feel isn’t going anywhere, please flag it for us to review, and stay out of the thread so it doesn’t bother you.
This is something that is currently being discussed.
I agree with you there. Here’s your complimentary tinfoil hat.
90% of our moderation is handled through flags. If something is flagged, we look into it and deal with it. What would you suggest we do for more transparency, exactly? We aren’t trying to hide our moderation, so suggestions would be helpful.
This can be for a couple reasons. Sometimes we discuss flags before acting, sometimes we are busy, and this is something that we will work on.