What is after Gasoline cars?

Vehicles & Mobility Cars
41

No, Fire rate is about on par with conventional vehicles
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032116301435?

Wang, Q., Jiang, B., Li, B., & Yan, Y. (2016). A critical review of thermal management models and solutions of lithium-ion batteries for the development of pure electric vehicles. Renewable And Sustainable Energy Reviews, 64106-128. doi:10.1016/j.rser.2016.05.033

And this helps understand the issues surrounding lithium batteries in a vehicle application
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6914962/?arnumber=6914962&SID=EBSCO:edseee

Life cycle testing of lithium batteries for fast charging and second-use applications. (2013). 2013 World Electric Vehicle Symposium and Exhibition (EVS27), Electric Vehicle Symposium and Exhibition (EVS27), 2013 World, 1. doi:10.1109/EVS.2013.6914962

Read up

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42

Old sources https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2017/03/31/tesla-model-s-fire-manchester-crash/amp/
But good try at being Zoltan. There can only be one

43

Iā€™m sorry, Trying to disqualify peer reviewed articles with a news article? You make me laugh.

And yet even if it was caused by a small crash, it doesnā€™t disprove the problem that lithium batteries are volatile and as soon as a fault occurs in one cell, it is highly likely it will burn and generally lithium fires are extremely hard to contain, rapidly igniting cells as the fire develops.

Hereā€™s a video since I doubt you read the articles I linked

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44

Peer reviewed articles that nobody else can read, and is 4 years old, in a rapidly developing area. Sorry, but Even if their fire rate is comparable to that of internal combustion engines, your argument is already disproved

45

Not my problem. There is a reason why peer reviewed articles exist as a source of information rather than what you find on the internet

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46

Then you really are not trying to have a studied discussion. For all I know, the article could say I am more correct. Still is 4 years old

Also, very few of the Tesla fires have been battery sourcedā€¦ Mostly other components

47

Physics and chemistry doesnā€™t change every 4 years.

Then source the articles, read them and come up with your own answer. I can wait

The article referenced more than just Tesla, because you know, Tesla isnā€™t the only EV manufacturer.

You have VW, Fiat, BMW, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Chevrolet plus others.

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48

But Tesla is by far the most popular

49

Not even close, Renault/Nissan in their EV partnership shipped 12,000 more units than Tesla world wide. The Nissan Leaf outsold the Tesla Model S. Even the Chevrolet Volt did better. Finally BYD outsold all of them back in 2016 and is still ramping up production.

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50

So many dense people talking about rotaries :\

A rotary can be reliable, easy. But you do need to wrench on it. Thats actually part of the fun of a rotary.

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51

Iā€™ll separate these posts to a new thread in the morning when Iā€™m not on mobileā€¦ This conversation has moved away from the OP.

If rotary and hydrogen are so good why are they not the de facto standard?

Piston ICE has established itā€™s dominance as itā€™s great part of the corporate machine. Easy to make /produce every part of the whole process. To the car to the fuel to the logistics to general maintenance for the consumer.

There are costs to switch to hydrogen and electric yesā€¦ But humanity will make the gradual switch to electric as it has already proven itself where hydrogen hasnā€™t.

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52

There will/would most definitely be a lithium shortage. Batteries for a single car require more lithium than those of dozens if not hundreds of small electronic devices. Now add to that that some people want to use battery technology to store electricity to buffer solar and wind energy. The lithium required for consumer electronics isnā€™t dropping either: Apparently even headphones need to be battery powered nowadays and no one knows what other devices will be in the future as battery technology improves and wireless charging inevitably becomes mainstream one day.

Both scientific and news articles are frequently wrong and a single one of either is not enough to prove anything anyways. Either way there is no reason to assume that hydrogen would be safer.

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53

I can make the same argument.
Why is electric so good when most people still only buy petrol vehicles?
The answer to the hydrogen one is simple. The infrastructure isnā€™t there yet.
The answer to the electric one is also simple. Most people donā€™t want to wait many hours for their vehicle to charge and the manufacturing infrastructure canā€™t scale to that quantity yet.

In reality we need a mixture of alternative technology. If petrol is to be removed from the roads completely then we need to look at the whole problem. Not just the problem you know. For the average daily commuter, electric is great. Drive to and from work, plug it in in the evening and by morning itā€™s charged. But for busses, trucks and vehicles that may go off road or away from society for a substantial amount of time, there needs to be an alternative that is easily transported and quick to refill. Without and society will see major issues or more likely continue using petrol.

54

Probably Full electric, we need to solve the issue with batteries tho.

55

Long answer.

Because production has not quite ramped up yet and with people it has been extremely hard to break the group think that electric cars are glorified golf carts.

Chevy & Nissan have been making electric cars for a while and make more globally than tesla, Of course. But the reason I give tesla credit it that they BROKE the old. An electric car with phenomenal range, Charging, Luxury, Speed. Itā€™s fantastic.

Tesla currently makes around 25K cars a quarter right nowā€¦ This is going to shoot up drastically in the coming months with the production of model 3. They aim for cars a 5K week at the end of the yearā€¦ and then 10K cars by end of next year

Short answer, sold out.

There are 500000 reservations for model 3, the amount of electric cars on the road is going to skyrocket in the coming years

The same could be said about electric. right?

But here we sit today and we have companies investing huge amounts of money into the elecrtical grid for charging, and manufacturing of electric cars. Where is the production for hydrogen? It doesnā€™t EXIST at scale. Why? Because electric is EASIER and SAFER to manufacture than hydrogen. If hydrogen was easier you can bet your ass these corporation would be going hydrogen to make money.

???

I have gone over this beforeā€¦ You charge you car over night at your house, (during off-peak hours mind you) you wake up and itā€™s full. Current electric cars are not for you if you drive more than the range of your car in a day. And IF you do need to exceed it for a day than you have access to the supercharger network (if you drive a tesla) for charging.

This is a non-issue. The REASON Teslaā€™s can super charge is because of the active liquid cooling of the battery and motor. Yes, if youā€™ve been running the car alot on a hot day and the battery is already warm, you WILL NOT charge at full speed at the super charger. Teslaā€™s are extremely serious about battery health.

This is why Tesla batteries have averaged only a 8% loss in 200000Km, thats not a typoā€¦ Nissan Leaf have battery health issues because they are not actively liquid cooled.

-footnote- This is user generated data from cars that have been on the road for YEARS, the current batteries produced by tesla are even better, and batteries around the world will only get betterā€¦

EDIT: Iā€™m not saying that super charging doesnā€™t degrade the battery, it will, faster than normal charging, But the severity of the degradation is minimal. And if you are seriously concerned about battery healthā€¦ IIRC, there is a setting within the car that can limit charging speed. (Someone fact check me here)

I will repeat myself. The technology is mostly here. It depends on your use-case. Every day i look at articles online that show new directions battery tech can go, high capacity, lighter, faster chargerate. The technology WILL come. The only thing that matters is HOW fast that will happen, because once battery tech gets better. it will become the more logical option for more people/situations.

I reserved a model 3 for the reasons stated above. I also said thisā€¦

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56


soooā€¦ tesla to qcon 2019?

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57

https://www.tesla.com/findus#/bounds/40.761885680291,-73.977541319709,40.759187719708,-73.980239280292,d?search=supercharger,&name=us&place=grapevinetxsupercharger

This map shows up coming ones, in additions to service centers, and destination chargers.

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58

Electric is going to be the next tech after gas piston engines. Long term, public transit is going to take on a major role, out of necessity. Just my .02.

59

Right. 60% lithium price hike in a past year is just a coincidence. And thereā€™s another one expected in September.

Itā€™s already here. Notebook manufacturers (or, rather, consumers) are getting the short end of a stick.

60

Lithium reserves donā€™t seem to be the issue. Itā€™s the supply and how fast we can feed the demand.

Weā€™ll likely see lithium prices go much higher before we see a mass increase in mining operations

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