Well I finally bought my stuff

Hardware Hub Build a PC
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FX-8350

ASRock 970 Extreme4 (Went with a 970 because I will not be running any cards in SLI or xfire. From the research I've done, it won't really offer much of a boost)

8GB 1600 DDR3 (don't know which ram yet, last thing to buy)

Radeon 5850 (given to me by a friend for free)

Coolmax ZX-700

WD 640gb drive and a few laptop drives.

NZXT Source 220 (love this thing)

Lots of fans and whatnot.

 

I want to OC the crap out of this system. Processor and ram. I'm going to push the ram to 1866, and my goal for the processor is to push it to 5GHZ. My question to you guys is, can i get away with a single 120-140mm sized radiator for my liquid cooling?


The ram will be just fine. I'm going to make sure to pick some up that has a heatspreader on it. I already know I want to liquid cool in the future because even though a larger air cooler WILL do the job, I hate the clunky look of it. However, the Source 220 is not the best when it comes to mounting a 2x 120 rad on it. If I mount a 1x 120 rad on it, with a fan on each side, is it going to be enough to push my cpu to 5ghz and still keep it cool? (not above 55c, preferrably.)

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Well, I'm not too familiar with the newer AMD chips and their thermal tolerance, but if you want to go single rad cooling, definately go for a 140mm one, such as the NZXT Karken x40, or the Corsair H90. From what I gather, most all-in-one liquid coolers are radiator limited, and the 140mm rads offer ~30% more surface area (compared to 120mm) to dissapate heat. It's your best bet for 5GHz and cool temps, though I think 55c is a bit of a tall order. Remember, all chips are little bit different in terms of OC headroom, and some might not even make it to 5GHz alltogether, much less 5GHz AND under 55c. A dual 140 rad is even better, such as the Kraken x60 or H110. I doubt a push-pull will make much of a difference, especially considering the rad is only 27mm thick. Personally, I'd just mount the rad in pull only. Makes cleaning a heck of a lot easier, and cooling performance should be identical to a push configuration.

If you didn't already buy the motherboard, I would have suggested going with the Gigabyte 970 UD3, because it has an 8+2 power design, which means more stable power to the CPU compared to a 4+1 like the Extreme4. The motherboard could be another potential barrier to reaching 5GHz.

Personally, I'd just get an inexpensive beefy air cooler, such as the Zalman CNPS14x or the NZXT Havik 140 and settle for 4.8GHz, or whatever you can get with cool temps. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to spend so much on a cooler, especially when the CPU isn't you're only limiting factor to OCing.

As for the RAM, I wouldn't bother with OCing beyond spec. It's very tricky to say the least, and testing RAM stability is a real bitch. If you want 1866, get some 1866. It's hardly any more expensive than 1600 anyway.

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Okay, so maybe 5 is pushing it, although I know the 8350 itself COULD do it..

Air cooling is something I really want to stay away from, either way. Too bulky and too loud, really. I'm also going for aesthetics with my new build.

Sadly I already bought my 970 Extreme4. I didn't really research power phases much. Probably shouldve done a little more research on that before spilling out my money. Oh well. I'd settle for under 5 in a pinch.

 

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Really, any of the FX series could reach 5GHz, but with OCing, it isn't consistent, and there is always a bit of luck involved.

Well, any decent air cooler isn't loud at all, and if you do get one bulky enough, you can even cool passively, which just can't be done on water cooling. But I get what you're saying about the bulk. I get a little concerned about the mobo... I might go for liquid cooling on my next build too. I only suggested air for the value. The cheaper all-in-ones don't cool any better, and are still more expensive than air cooling.

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That's why I'm actually considering a custom loop, but that mainly adds aesthetical value.

And yes, those bigger air coolers make me feel like they're going to rip up the motherboard. If they're that heavy in your hand, what makes you think I motherboard can support them for a few years?

Makes me think.

I'm asking about the rad because I was considering getting some junkyard parts to truly make this a custom loop. Heatercore from a car would prove a very effective rad. Just trying to figure out if they even make them the size I'd need.

I could get a dual 140 sized one, but a single is honestly going to fit my needs better.

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I agree, the single 140mm would best fit your needs. Personally, I'd go Kraken x40. Ought to look nice with that NZXT Source case. :D

Actually custom loops can cool better, if you do it right. As I've noted, the all-in-ones are radiator limited, so if you added a larger, or even multiple radiators, you can get better cooling performance. And you just can't beat the aesthetics of a custom loop either. However, they can also cost significantly more, and require regular maintenance as well.

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Well, what I was thinking, although this would look ugly, is to mount the rad on the top, inside, and mount the fans on the outside of the case. Yes, you could squeeze a rad up there, but not with fans as well.

It would offer the best performance, but looks.. Well...

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Hmmm, you should have bought the 8350 with AMD's custom loop. From what I've heard, they're pretty good. One site I read even used one to push the same chip to 5Ghz( if I remember correctly). And if you buy it together with the chip, it's priced lower than buying the chip and an equivalent cooler.

If you get a decent loop, then a single rad would probably be fine. Plus with the "lots of fans and whatnot", that'll help. If the price is right, get the 140mm rad, of course. 

But what's with the CoolMax PSU though? I guess you could live with that for now, as I doubt it'll actually hurt any of your parts( heck, the first few PSUs I used were unbranded, and only one failed- after 5 years of service[ 2 for me, 3 for the family member I gave it to], and it never broke anything). But as much as possible, before upgrading anything, try to buy a better PSU.

Your friend was nice to give you the 5850 for free. It's still a decent performer. Faster than a 7770 in most cases, and reaching/matching/faster than a 7850 in a lot of cases. It's only limited by it's memory bandwidth.

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little note, I have seen far heavier coolers then the common high end air towers of today mounted for many years on boards without issues, one example is a system a built for a friend in the socket 940/754 days, he still has it running, its a 754 [email protected](amazing oc for its day), its got a cooler that you could almost call a slug of copper with fins pressed in, it screws directly to the back plate...


I wouldnt trust that weight to the plastic clips for years on end, but screw mount, there should be zero issues.

if you just want to hit 4.6-4.8 just grab a xigmatek aegir or a true120 or similar from thermalright and put 2 akasa vipers on it.


I am running an aegir myself and, honestly its a kickass air cooler, 4.6 and it never tops 52c per core!!! (thats tested with occt, p95 and intelburnin test)

if you want custom water, get an apogee drive II and do what im working on doing, build it external, just have the hoses going into the block/pump.


My "crazy" plan is, to use this 2 gallon bucket I have as a res and place to mount 2 heater cores i got when danger den went tits up, mount the heater cores(rads) to the lid of the bucket, have the water pass thru one as it heads back into the bucket and the other as it comes out, 2 fans on each heatercore. 


my builds a bit overkill, but, the big advantage is it will be piss easy to drain if i need to, and refilling will be a brease if its ever needed....

I got the apogee drive without pump, because this fellow http://bmaverickddcpumps.wordpress.com/buy-ddc-pumps-here/ has ddc pumps for a song, (i got 2 for 55bucks shipped!!!) thats what I would suggest honestly, gets the cost down, and lets you make something fun....

I got a buddy whos water cooling goes into a little fake aquarium (well its a real aquarium with fake fish...) he cools the water with a set of aquarium pumps pushing water into a large heater core he got locally at u-pull-it for 6 bucks, one pump pushes water into the rad, the other pulls it out(to keep flow smooth since the pumps where just cheap ones form the pet store) 

also, easiest coolant is distilled water mixed with anti-freeze(the non-toxic kind), 2 parts water 1 part anti-freeze.

good luck......

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cool youve got your  parts, tobad you didn´t buy the Asus board  but the asrock will do fine too.

about oc´s you need a bit of luck, but i think the  extreme will do it good to :)

tha Asrock 970 extreme 4 has a 8pin cpu power connector, so it will do just fine. the gigabyte has also 8 pin, i dont know where you get that info? its both the same

 only  old 760 chipsets, micro ATX mainboards have single 4 pin cpu power connector

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Phase power design is different from supplemetnal CPU power. Both boards have the same 8-pin supplemental power, but different phase power designs. Both the ASRock and ASUS boards have a 4+1 phase power design, and the Gigabyte UD3 has an 8+2. AFAIK, the UD3 is the only 970 board that has an 8 power phases dedicated to the CPU, which makes it the best overclocking board with a 970 chipset available on Newegg. ASUS does have a M5A97 EVO variant, which does have an 6+2 phase power design, but I haven't seen it on the egg. You can read up more on phase power design here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/891696/a-short-power-phase-design-explanation

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I just want to dispell some anti-air cooling propaganda. But before that let me give me recommendation. You said you wanted to OC your CPU to 4.8-5.0, and OC your ram, sounds like a custom loop is the best choice. A single 120/140 will not give you the temps you want at that kind of an overclock. Your best bet is a nice little dual 120/140, and a waterblock for your CPU (possibly your ram). It's not cheap.

Here's where the air cooling comes in:

1. Air cooling is NOT louder than water cooling. Simply put, pump+fans > fans alone. You could have a h100 with 4 SP 120s in push pull and that would produce more noise than a thermalright or xigmatek in push pull with the exact same fans.. The concept that liquid cooling is a quiet option isn't without merits since you are removing most case fans and throwing everything on a loop, but if you're not going to throw everything on a loop (which you're not) buying the right casefans/heatsink fans will yield about the same noise level that a water cooled system will offer.

2. Air coolers come with insane mounting mechanisms for a reason. My friend has had a huge notcua d14 mounted for the past 3-4 years and there is no evidence of warping or board damage.

3. Air coolers offer up some residual airflow that can help cool what ever you wind up pointing them at.

4. The only point that i will give you is bulk, but that's not exactly the case anymore, big ass units like the d14 are being matched/outpreformed by smaller blocks like the havik. Iif your case can fit a havik or other highend air cooler then you shouldn't care about bulk. You won't be routing cables over your motherboard, and if you pick the right block ram should have no problems fitting in.

5. Aesthetically i find that a big sexy hunk of metal is just as attractive as the minimal look that CLC's offer. Nothing can beat a custom loop in terms of looks as well as performance, but from the looks of your budget build it doesn't seem like you have $200+ to shell out on cooling.

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That is true, 200 dollars I do not have to shell out on cooling..

The thing is, my dad already has some tubing and connectors I could use. For the rad, I could pick up a heatercore. That just leaves the pump and resevoir and the waterblock. I was considering getting a pump for something like a fish tank, or just getting one designed for computers, and for the resevoir, I want one that will fit either 2 or 3 cd drive bays as I find that it looks quite sexy. 

So all in all, I could do this for 100 or less if I really put the time into finding the parts...

What kind of performance would I be looking at from a cheap waterblock like this one-

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/xsraadkitfor.html

I don't want to spend more than 30 on a waterblock.. I just have too many other things to pay for.

If the total price really does tally up, air cooling it is.

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Nevermind I'm stupid. That's only a mounting kit. Can anyone recommend the cheapest possible waterblock that's still going to get the job done?

Also about the power supply-

I've had this thing for a few months now. It's a 700w power supply that's 80 plus certified and it was only about 40 dollars. It's doing amazingly well. I've had zero problems with it, actually. The reviews on newegg were all good, and my budget was low when i bought it, so i figured, what the heck?