Mega-triggered.
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If you were capable of reading you might get some sense.
Oh well, I tried guys. Seems I annoy everyone now.
Cool.
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I wasn’t intending to call anyone out or make another drama thread.
Hmmmm
Hmmmmmmmmmm
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Yeah reddit is not great. I’d avoid it.
I wrote this a while back
I’d disagree with you on some things.
The first, thinking that the Linux community as a whole is actually a community. Its not. Id argue that its a bunch of communities that share some similar principles. Most of them are decent people. some are elitist idiots that cant see outside their own little world.
I decided to comment on your points.
Good example of what I mean. Because while some vegans are annoying idiots, most aren’t.
? In relation to Linux?
Agreed (though worth defining free), free software is a continuous improvement program. People can argue that windows sucks as well, both have their faults and issues for different resons. People cant seem to take that at face value.
I had a short conversation with someone about the windows store. I was suggesting that i didn’t get the hatred towards it when people use Linux package managers and dont mind those. At the base level the windows store is essentially a package manager. Que the hate, and tangents to dismiss the observation and backwards logic to insist that the windows store doesnt manage packages so there nothing alike… I used gnome-software as an example and that went to shit as well, i should use a better package manager, gnone-software is shit, gnome is shit, use yumex-dnf (which isnt even maintained)… That wasn’t even my point.
There’s maybe a fine line, and I agree you shouldn’t be elitist and think your better than anyone. But that doesnt mean you shouldn’t explain why you use something if that’s part of the conversation.
Agreed.
Does anyone think this? There’s good reason to argue in favour for AMD when it comes to graphics these days, most of the stack is open source, it works out of the box, but i don’t think anyone thinks there morally superior because of it.
I think we agree? People aren’t stupid, but I also think its a mistake to tell new Linux users to go use Arch or similar when they are not fully fledged and supported operating systems.
The gnome-software argument i mentioned, apparently its a piece of shit, when i was comparing its need and how windows does it. Its a great piece of software, especially for new users, and that it integrates flatpak and firmware updates. But if i wasn’t using their favourite package manager i was stupid and wrong.
I think there’s good reasons not to use Windows 10, and I also think there’s one answer to “how to i stop windows 10 spying” and that’s to not use Windows at all, use Linux or UNIX.
Windows 10 isn’t bad, and if you don’t mind it not being a open operating system then go for it, though i think its fine to argue the point of why you might not want to.
Free in what sense?
The real argument here, is not all open source programs are superior to their closed source counter parts, and not all closed source programs are superior to their open source counter parts. Many open programs are far better than their closed ones, for varying reasons.
Id also keep in mind, that if the openness (freedom) of a program is important to someone then most if not all open programs are better for them than closed ones. There’s nothing wrong with that argument.
In what way? Bad for the gaming industry? Bad, in that gaming on windows has more games?
I play games on Linux without issue, id say that a year ago a number of Linux games played bad depending on hardware, that’s not really true much anymore.
Who gave you the idiotic reason of command line programs being minimal?
Command line programs (for the most part) are superior than their GUI counterparts because there more complex
CLI programs commonly have more options, more power, more ability to integrate with other tools. they are simply far better for many many tasks.
This is true for Windows CLI programs as well (powershell is great for example)
That also doesnt mean GUI tools arent also great.
Who does this…?
On a similar note, ive installed Linux for other people, after asking them if they want to try it because it’ll do everything they want, is well supported on their hardware, and wont cost anything extra.
Id agree in part, but also disagree in part.
There’s nothing wrong with suggesting hardware that works with free software. I’ll more likely suggest AMD for graphics not only because they make open drivers, but because the hardware is good, the drivers are good, it integrates well and the company is supportive of open software which is good for everyone in the long run.
If they want something else they want something else, ill show them the guide to nvidia mania 
Don’t think anyone particularly disagrees.
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Alright, you’ve stated you don’t agree. I’m not going to play “who can be more of a dick” with you.
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I think we’ve touched on a few things in another thread, but i’ll reply properly in a little while.
Well you already started that I don’t even have to play.
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I agree with your general sentiment just not all of your points.
Agreed. Theres always a sliver of people that are annoying.
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Literally nobody outside of people who are either already in it, or have peeked in through the window, know that though. What I’m addressing in this post is sort of the more frustrated version of yours. Ie how can we, people who are in the know about Linux, best help people who are not. And people who are NOT in the know, tend to take ridiculously small sample sizes when it comes to new groups. One or two bad eggs and they’re gone. WHICH IS WHY I am very very very very much in favour of the sample size they take being of normal, CALM, rational people who just happen to know about this thing they’re seeking info about. THE PROBLEM BEING, the threshold for a bad egg in the Linux community seems to be on par with the LoL community, ie the likelihood somebody is going to run into a complete gibbering moron seems REALLY REALLY HIGH to me, and I am trying to emphasise that these are the kinds of behaviours I have seen both on this forum, and abroad, and we might serve ourselves better if we first recognised some of these behaviours, and made it a point not to do them.
the prevailing attitude of one product being better and the constant hyping of that product, in conjunction to the demonising of other products purely on the basis of how the company runs, gets very very tiring. It gets to the point where buying into said circlejerk becomes extremely unappealing, even if the product being hyped has legitimate good traits.
yes. I can’t really be more specific due to being too tired to go dig up posts which would then cause even more drama, but yes, I have observed people who do think this.
we touched on this in another thread and we left it at me having no desire to take things to an ideological level, and I don’t believe there was any animosity or argument from you about it being my right to do that. That was one of my assertions, though, that not everyone is going to care about it that much, and the ideological side of things isn’t going to necessarily interest people as much as what Linux can do for them [ie save them software fees at for school, etc] right now.
it’s bad in the way people present it as "oh no dawg, you can totally game on Linux, you can totally ditch Windows. You should ditch Windows dawg, you totally should."
No. You shouldn’t. Gaming on Linux is extremely limited, and not really viable for hardcore gamers. Again, I’m not talking about THIS POST RIGHT HERE IS WHERE THIS WAS SAID BY THIS USER HERE. I’m talking about implications. I have seen this argued before, and any dissenting opinions get shut down.
again, if I can talk as someone who is more in the new user camp [no IT background, Windows only user until a few years ago] than not, I can tell you from the bottom of my soul that new users will not give two flying monkies. They want something that works, and that they can access easily. Yet again, I’m referring to the general attitude of the “”""“community”"""", being that GUI is for plebs and CLI is superior, and if you can’t figure it out, RTFM. I cannot accurately express the sheer unfiltered loathing that I feel when I see any permutation of that sentiment when it’s thrown in people’s face like it so often is. That is honestly one of the things I would cite as a reason for people to abandon Linux and flee to the fucking hills if they’re not already invested. Which is also why I want to make it painfully obvious that I will never be like that, I will shirk any association with being a “Linux user” if I have to, and I will try to get them the PRECISE, EXACT information they need. I know how it feels to be waiting quietly for help only to have @rch_l0rd1337 tell me about the man page, and the desire to smother them with their Stallman body pillow bubble up inside of me. People don’t need to be told that, they need HELP. They want to be able to get on with their task in Linux, and I’m glad that attitude isn’t heavily present here.
that sort of ties in with my earlier point about the circlejerk/hype aspect. One thread on here was a user stating he wanted a new CPU for a PURELY GAMING BUILD, and CLEARLY stated they would “rather not” go with AMD. Guess what the first several recommendations where. They eventually decided on AMD and may or may not be perfectly happy at the moment, but I was in awe of the deliberate disregard. THAT’S NOT WHAT THEY ASKED FOR! I am perfectly happy to shut up and let AMD people trot out their recommendations when somebody specifically asks for it, or when the question is open-ended enough for people to quickly surmise an answer based on the needs presented, but as custodians of whomever wanders in here and asks for our help, do not not believe that we should put personal bias down for five seconds and actually listen to what’s being asked? That was perhaps my main point, that I am tired of seeing the same copy/paste biased behaviour i’ve seen on Reddit and other Linux sites, and we have a chance not to be like that.
I remember that thread, and I somewhat disagree with this specific example but agree with your general sentiment.
(this is what I remember of that thread, sadly I was not able to find the thread in question so if my memory of this is wrong, my bad)
In that thread, the user in question had had a very bad experience with an AMD product that was very, very out of date, and because of that, had a “less than current” view of what new AMD products did offer. I remember that thread because it did end up getting out of hand, but the people initially trying to convince the guy were more because his dated view of AMD products was going to lead him into buying a vastly inferior intel product at the same price of a vastly superior AMD product. In that case, I feel suggesting he reconsider was fair, because his view was out of date and was going to possibly lead him into buying a worse product than he could have otherwise bought.
An example that I feel is much more current, is the suggestion that a user should buy a RX Vega 64 instead of a Gtx 1080 or Gtx 1080 Ti. A user wants to know what to upgrade, and someone comes along and says they should buy a Vega card instead of a GeForce. To put why I feel this suggestion is absolutely atrocious in perspective, I will lay out my logic. Vega is $100+ more than the Gtx 1080 it trades blows with, draws 100+ watts more power, and for that $100 more you get a fucking vacuum cleaner disguised as a reference cooler. If you spend $100 more than Vega 64’s lowest current going price of $599 (BestBuy has it on preorder for $599, buy now is $699), you can get a custom cooled Gtx 1080 Ti, which is routinely 25%+ faster than V64 in games. Needless to say, Vega 64 is a shit card for gamers, period.
But still, the AMD fanboys of the forum will recommend it to you.
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Wich one, there were several. And I was one of those AMD fanboys in a lot of them. 
@Goblin Thing for me is I recommend what I think fits the bill. If someone wants to be unreasonable and buy stuff because yolo, that’s fine. But when you ask publicly for help, you get opinions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
FTFY 
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Ha. I was thinking about it earlier. I already did this thread appropriately 2 or 3 years ago with my “why linux is not as big as it should be” thread.
I also have better sentence structure than that.
I generally agree with the OP here but also wow, the salt is real lol.
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For new people the big thing they have to understand is Linux is not “free Windows”
Then with any *nix system, understand why it is the way it is.
If that ain’t for you, cool. If that interest you, get a VM or a cheap computer (Raspberry Pi). Install it, abuse it and break it, try to fix it, if not? Reinstall. Don’t be scared and back up data.
After that put that on you main machine. Still back it up.
I find researching and reading Man pages will teach you much faster than asking. Teach a man to fish…and the rest of the cliche.
This may sound harsh but Linux is a pickup truck not a sports or luxury car. It is meant to be used till you kill it. Run a LAMP stack, write code, build a website, data mine, run a cluster, spin up VMs or use it as media editing setup. Just use it. Don’t hold back.
Open source software is not made for you it was made for the person or group who made it. They did this many times for free. They don’t owe you, the user, anything. You are expected to give feedback, bug reports and code.
Using it just as a hobby desktop seems wasteful to me.
If this sounds harsh, this is why I don’t post much in the Linux section.
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Linux is stupid anyways you should all use amiga’s.
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