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Uhh can anyone here read arabic?

#1

so tl;dr im crazy and i collect antique swords that should be in a museum and i came across an arabic inscription on a wootz blade. at first i thought it was hindi but all my indian friends tell me it is arabic and im racist. i dont suppose anyone can translate this?

edited new images


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#2

“Pointy edge forward”

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#3

“This item contains chemicals know to the state of Calif…” oh god damnit.

@Heimdallr ?

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#4

Its old Arabic… Its hard to read the scripture. I’ll look at it in the morning in MATLAB and see what text I can extract from the calligraphy and see if I can read it

I can see the lettering I just need the vowel symbols for the correct translation if they aren’t present I’ll make the best guess in the morning

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#5

it’s wootz so it has to be at least 200 years old

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#6

There is a possibility its Urdu or also farsi but we shall see. I have an afghani friend who speaks farsi much more fluently than myself and she dabbled in urdu…

Should be interesting to go over

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#7

If you have any information about the sword. DM me the information. Its 1 am… My eyes are fading haha

A very high res close up and well focussed would be an additional help

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#8

You no nothing Jon Snow !

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#9

Well, I’m pretty sure on the first line it says Ali (Cousin of the Prophet Muhammad, who married Fatima, the Prophet’s daughter)
The second says Hussein (second son of Ali)
The third could be Hassan (first son of Ali)
Not clear what the fourth line says

I’m guessing it is probably of Shia influence, as they tend to ascribe alot of religious and political importance to the lineage of the Prophet through Ali.

Cool find.

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#10

Im working on it but I need higher resolution. I have done some tricks with my own code though


@Big_Al_Tech @fredrich_nietze
This is an ongoing effort. I have made some words out. I will consult people more versed in the history of the time. Here are the words

Arabic:
على حبس حت طبا
“Ali is imprisoned” or “From Dusk to Dawn”
Farsi:
على حبس حت طبا
“Ali is in jail”
Urdu:
على حبس حت طبا
“Always be the first person”

Here is the caveat. We dont know if the language says Ali or Ala both two different words in both sunni and shia arabic. Given the shapes are a nautilus it could be something about the divine especially given the calligraphy. You see the shapes of the nautilus we know humans have always considered this natural shape a perfect logarithm to be the work of the divine in some way. So it is religiously influenced as all things were at the time.

Theres just so much going on. Do you have other pictures… hints at what it maybe other artifacts and information

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#11

“Instructions continued on other side”

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#12

got higher res images. the artifact is a wootz knife. wootz is also known as damascus steel, but it isnt the modern damascus which is pattern welded steel. wootz is chemically altered and we can only guess at how today. all wootz steel was made in damascus and the iron ore was imported from india and the secret to making it was closely guarded until everyone who knew died. as a result wootz blades are and were valued highly and their are museum pieces of wootz that belonged to kings and emperors ect. i have several blades with english inscriptions or stamps of the maker in the same place, however these blades werent made then sold, but commissioned for specific individuals and often had the owners name on it. also the person who inscribed it may not have spoken the language. think “guy getting a tattoo in chinese”
*edited added images


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#13

Fascinating subject
https://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9809/Verhoeven-9809.html
Thank you for this, never knew there were different types of Damascus steel

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#14

Could someone paint where reads what, to me all that is just random scribble decoration

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#15

This was my interpretation, compared with modern writing of the names provided in the top corner.

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#16

2 and 3 Dont make too much sense unless we have context. Do you know where you got the green and yellow picture from?

This is true. However sometimes despite being commissioned they can contain a saying the individual liked more than the name.

Thats all part of the struggle in this translation :grin:

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#17

I mean if you’re familiar with Islamic personalities, you would know there’s no real need for context as to why specifically those names…

To think about it, even the 4th line could just be the letter sad, symbolically used to mean the expression “peace/salutations upon him/them”

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#18

Yes but I don’t think your picture translations are entirely accurate nor are mine for that matter … here is why. You are depicting a nuun at the end of both those which would make it those names IF that was the letter. Of course I’m familiar with arabic customs I am half arab LOL

See the problem is the 4th word is sabah. “morning” so thats why I said both our translations have merit but without more context we can never know. We can only guess nobody can be right :smiley: as is everything with history

Oh by the way welcome to the forum. i noticed you are new or rather the system put a little notification above your post that I see… that tells us :slight_smile:

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