Sweeden did some research on snus and nicositamines or something.
e-cigs are a mild stimulant and the e-smoke is what is used in rock concerts.
What happened to "right to control our bodies"?
The FDA needs to be de-funded immediately.
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You have no idea what the FDA actually does. If you did, you'd not call for defunding at all. Along with the sometimes overzealous regulation that comes from it that everyone cries about, the FDA also ensures that food and drug companies are meeting standards for the manufacturing and distribution of goods. They ensure that companies accurately label their products. The sheer number of manufacturers and distributors that are subject to inspection would blow your mind. You know what else would blow your mind? The number of companies that are NOT in compliance. These places would be shoveling unsafe and contaminated products onto store shelves if not for the efforts of the FDA.
Inspectors are sent to all corners of the globe to ensure that the companies that we import from are following safe operating procedures. Sometimes inspectors are sent to countries alone, where they don't speak the language, without a guide or reliable transportation, because the FDA can't afford or can't find someone that is not only a scientist in their respective fields but also speaks that country's native tongue. The majority of the people working to ensure that you get safe food and drugs are overworked and underpaid. But sure, let's defund them because one part of the FDA regulated e-cigs in a way that you disagree with.
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I instantly started cackling when I read this. The Kek, right?
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I don't mind smokers switching to e-cigs. My mother switched to an e-cig after 35 years of smoking and in few short months she stopped coughing. And if nothing else it helps the passive smokers because there's no such thing as passive vaping.
But neither of those activities are healthy and they shouldn't be encouraged or defended. It's still poison. And vaping is still relatively new so we don't know the extent of health issues that can manifest in the future. Caution is therefore advised.
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Oh for sure, I don't think anyone is dumb enough to believe that vaping is 100% safe. That'd be pretty silly. But it can help stop an incredibly harmful addiction and at least mitigate the damage.
What the FDA is doing is somewhat overkill, I'm all for keeping ejuice and ecig manufactures in check but what they are proposing is a death sentence for many small companies. And the harder they make it for people to get a hold of these items the more likely they are to switch to cigs. And even the ecig companies that do make it are more than likely controlled by big tobacco. It's really shameful what they are trying to do right now, and there needs to be a call for revisions.
It's funny how non-tabacco companies getting hit by all these toacco companies' PR and regulation. Just shows how corrupt the american lobbying system is.
Ecigs are tabacco, kinda reminds me of this 3 year old.
Hell yeah
Everyone, I just wanted to clarify, there is a big difference between having tobacco or just nicotine in your system.
Here is an example:
http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix
"As a 2007 paper in the journal Neuropharmacology put it: “Tobacco use has one of the highest rates of addiction of any abused drug.” Paradoxically it’s almost impossible to get laboratory animals hooked on pure nicotine, though it has a mildly pleasant effect."
Please think about this before calling nicotine tobacco and vice versa. Thanks.
Note: I am not supporting either or saying they are healthy.
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You have no idea what I know.
Complete and total BS. Can you name the Federal Computer Agency to ensure computer electrical saftey?
It is not needed. UA or Underwriters Laboratories, a private organization has done such a fantastic job they are never in the news. The FDA, by contrast, suck so bad that a salmonella or ecoli google search will result in several pages of FDA screwups. Defunding and shutting down the FDA would result in food being a thousand times safer.
The government loves to tell us they need trillions or we will all die. There was a time before the FDA. Somehow humanity survived.
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That doesn't really help your point. Not discrediting what you know as that would be a blind assumption, but at least elaborate on your knowledge of the FDA.
As for the point of shutting down the FDA... short answer no. Long answer... there definitely is a need to slap the FDA across the face and put it in check. Obviously easier said then done due to a lot of the corrupt shit that goes on. But I believe there's still a need to set safety regulations with companies that make food and drug products for the public.
You both are not considering both sides of the issue with the FDA. Serious reform needs to be done.
People who reach high level executive positions at a company the FDA regulates should not be able to hold manager/executive level positions at the FDA, or at least not the same specific industry or company they used to work for. Monsanto...
If you want, sadly the fastest way is by electing it. This can be done in many ways (federal vs state etc) PLEASE DO NOT DEBATE POLITICS regarding this.
Bigger deterrents need to be in place for quality control sacrifices done for increasing profit. An example would be to fine a company say X dollars for each contaminated palatte (not individual product) and X^2 dollars if they had clear knowledge and did it anyways. However this kind of thing will never happen as we have elected people who are FOR the company not the consumer and this has caused problems in every single industry that affects consumer health (food, water, vape, etc) and many others
Reform from the ground up carried out all at once, reform needs to be pre planned. This is to ensure the consumers do not get screwed halfway through when someone decides to "revise" or edit the reforms to match the requests of who bought them.
There is way more to it, but any more will derail the thread from the focus on e-cigs
I agree with Big_Al_Tech
FDA has 14,000 employes and costs the taxpayer over 4 billion
This is safety via big government.
UL has under 6,000 employes and takes in under 400 million
This is safety via private enterprise.
The issue is not safety or no safety it is methodology or how we want to achieve that safety
Alton Brown from the food network would occasionally go into the absurd FDA regulations like if you leave the barn door open for any amount of time you can label the chickens inside as free range. Just one example
Also spent 2.5 years in food service w/ the largest food distributer in the US. Obviously the accusation that I know nothing about the FDA was so spurious that I considered a one sentence reply to be the best option. I apologize if it was overly emphatic or in anyway violated anything.
point 1: Totally agree. The problem is when the government creates the position they need knowledgable people to fill that position. SO you are stuck with a corporate shill or an activist.
point 2: Politics enters into everything:(
point 3: The successor to the defended FDA would be deterred after seeing an entire agency fired. I like what China did to their safety person after the dog food fiasco and several dogs died from Chinese dog food. They started hanging people.:)
point 4: Reform always seem to just add another layer of government at taxpayer expense.
Government is not the answer to our problems government is the problem. Paraphrase of Reagan
e-cigs have been around since the 60's! They were never a plant nor where they grown by native americans or placed in a peace pipe. Was not until they became popular that the FDA made this insane statement. (BTW crazy people ought not be in food safety:))
Now Sweden does have an interesting way of regulating tobacco although the EU has declared war on snus. But that's a whole other contentious political thread:)
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So here's the most important question, instead of just bitching about it on a forum. How do we win this?
If we go back to cigarettes, then big tobacco wins, and I'm about 99% sure that they're the leading cause behind all this fuckery.
If we quit altogether, then big government wins, and they're working with big tobacco to make all this happen.
If we keep vaping, but don't do anything to stop this, chances are our new juices will be from a big tobacco company because they're the only ones who can afford to stay in business. That's not acceptable either.
Support HR 2058
Pretty much the best thing you can do along with emailing your congressmen and women.
https://cqrcengage.com/casaa/app/write-a-letter?0&engagementId=153933
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It is complete horseshit and another glowing example of why lobbyists should be fair game for hunters if they go near our halls of power or their members.
There is apx.4000 additives in Tobacco ranging from chocolate and liquorice to benzene and nitrosamines.
It has been known for at least a decade that nicotine is far less addictive or toxic than first assumed. I have seen two studies that places it around caffeine on the addiction charts.
Tobacco is designed to be as addictive as possible which is why the term "freebase nicotine" has been thrown around a lot. Appropriately so btw.
In the UK lung specialists have gone as far as to call vaping one of the greatest inventions for public health since the discovery of Penicillin because it makes people not smoke tobacco.
PG and VG is well known substances, well studied and understood including their effect on the respiratory system after long term exposure. However, there are a lot of the substances used in the flavouring agents that we have no idea what does long or short term. The industry itself started to self regulate quite a while ago. When Diacetyl came under suspicion of causing 'popcorn-lung' the high shelf companies stopped using it in their liquids because it is the polite thing to do when their costumers are worried. However, even at worst there are hundreds of times more Diacetyl in tobacco than even the worst liquids discovered so far.
Tobacco and vaping is not alike on any level. This is just more political numbskullery that favours the second most deadly industry in the world and goes to show how far removed politics now are from the people it governs and the real world. Quite frankly, fuck those lying thieving murderous clowns and their choirboys. I hope each of them get an infected boil right on their asshole followed by 4 weeks of really acidic shits.
Nice find @Big_Al_Tech. If anyone is woundering there are a ton of co-sponsers listed here
Glad to see my man Barletta is on this one:)
Here is another great article at Vapefight
The EU just got a similar steaming pile of law. No tanks larger than 3ml, sale only in 10ml bottles.. yadayada wont someone think of the children blahyadayda
Seems like a ton of you guys are only looking at the ready made e-juices they sell... I'm curious as to whether people who make their own (almost all the vapers I know) will become like moonshiners in the 30s since it sounds like they're only going to allow people to vape the ready made shit rather than let people continue to mix it themselves.