I’m looking into designing a system for switching camera perspective in a game, and I would like to hear other gamers opinion about that. First let me briefly describe what I have in mind.
Lets suppose that the game map is divided into 2 type of areas:
first type have third person camera (similar to one from The Witcher) this area is used for onboarding, changing vehicle loadout, crafting, levelup, and would have rpg elements like dialogs with NPCs - like vehicle mechanic for example.
second type has top-down camera like in Diablo, DOTA or Factorio - these areas are for combat, resource gathering,
Player would move around in the second area only inside a vehicle - like a tank or a mech, so there would be no option to explore these areas with 3rd person camera. Camera would change its type with the act of getting in or out of a vehicle.
I don’t remember any game with this type of a camera and would like to hear if this system could be playable / acceptable in a single player game?
Nier Automata had that 3rd person view that sometimes becomes a 2D sidescrolling platformer. I think it works because a lots of people liked Nier. You can implement but it has to be done well.
I havent really played Nier yet though… its still in my Steam backlog of shame…
Yeah is fine, games do all sorts of stuff and are successful.
Silca has a top down view for the RTS part paired with regular FPS.
UFO: Enemy Unknown is a legendary single player game that had the continuous time geoscape view and turn based battlescape view.
Another way I’d look at it is Diablo was a great game. If it had switched to a third person view while in the town I think it would still have been a great game.
It mainly just depends on what type of game that you’re trying to develop and what audience you’re aiming to capture, so a little more detail on what you want to achieve could help a lot. Not all camera angles play well with actual gameplay.
On ship/off ship/certain “safe areas”. On ship was mostly 2D with fixed camera angles depending on the room you were in, and main gameplay off ship was free camera with very specific fixed camera areas where there were no enemies. It’s been a while since I played it, but they did do it well.
The main difference between top down and from behind 3rd person views is that top down views nearly eliminate the need for multiple levels of detail. There’s also vastly less overdraw in top down scenes so performance issues will be much more easily managed.
Assets intended to be used in scenes with a 3rd person camera will need high detail geometry and textures for when the camera is close, imposters for when in the distance and low poly versions for in between.
Assets that will only be seen from a top down perspective at a fixed height only need a single LOD. This allows for either a lot more models to be built in the same time or for more attention to be given to how models look exclusively from a top down view at a specific distance.
You mention dividing the game map into two areas but opting to use separate maps for each rather than allowing the same scene to be viewed from both perspectives comes with benefits. It keeps all the top down assets separate eliminating any issues with assets primarily intended for one type of scene looking out of place in the other. It really depends on the gameplay though… if a seamless transition or frequent switching back and forth is important then putting in the extra work to make all models look and perform well from any distance may be worth while.
On the surface level I want the game to be story driven single player game with mostly linear main narrative. You start inside the walled village where you get introduced to the world and the main storyline goal of the game is revealed. You also get an introduction to progression system for the character and the vehicle mechanic (short tutorial).
Best example for the top down parts gameplay-wise would be tank/spidertron from Factorio, but the map would have limits. Each one of those areas would be its own biome with distinctive enemy type, narrative impact, resource type and would unlock new crafting recipes after it is conquered.
The main gameplay loop looks like this:
3rd person camera view
start at the village
through dialogs with NPCs you get the new objective
new area is revealed on the main map
prepare the vehicle (crafting, loadout)
get inside the vehicle
camera shifts to top-down view
get outside the village into new location
fight trough waves of enemies
kill local boss
explore points of interest (mechanics for this is TBD)
gather resources (mechanics for this is TBD)
get back to the village and park the vehicle, get outside
camera shifts to 3rd person view
I want the game to have a high replayability factor with vehicle types and loadout - I plan to build this in a sandbox fashion.
A very far fetched, long term goal for the game is to have coop PvE along single player campaign, but I’m not stressing myself about this.
Thanks for laying this down. I’m aware of most of this and I started making a plan already.
I’m opting for top-down part mainly because I want to do a justice to the massive battles where you fight a sea of enemies and in top-down view this can be optimized in a various ways.
Agree on this 100%. I’m in the middle of greyboxing of the first two locations. After I’m done with it I plan to do a lot of camera and asset tests.
Nier’s camera is probably the final reason I quit playing that game, but what you’re describing sounds natural and good. I’ve played lots of games with more than one mode of interaction/camera to them, and I don’t see any problem with the concept.
I think this is a cool idea @NukeDukem (cool name BTW) and I can’t think of any other game off the top of my head that switched between GTA1 style top-down view in vehicles versus 3rd person when wondering as a person. I think this could create some neat strategies in a multiplayer environment since you would know anyone in a vehicle can see all around them 360 degrees but can’t see very far in the distance giving you some advantages while giving them others. And they are seeing you out of a vehicle would know you can only see in the direction you’re facing but you can see a long way.
It would be cool if the NPC’s had to abide by the same rules also meaning when they are in vehicles their detection of other players and objects are just as limited as the actual player and vice versa for 3rd person outside of vehicles. You could use some cool strategies too like jumping out of the vehicle to see far ahead and then jump back in to head further in that direction, so you don’t just drive into an ambush.
It might also be cool if you switched between first and thirst person forced depending on the area regardless of if in a vehicle or not just to force the player into using different strategies in different map areas, etc. However, that might be a little much and drive some people insane. But who cares, build the game you want to build and the audience that loves it will find it and play it!
Might also be cool to let the user dynamically switch between top down and 3rd person regardless of where they are and have the NPC’s around the area take into account the view the player is using so they can adjust their detection and strategy. Like for instance if you’re in 3rd person you can see really far but you’re blind to the sides and behind you so NPC’s from a distance can take shots at you and ambush you since you’re within their vision. However, in top down view the NPC’s dont see you unless they come into frame where the player can see them, otherwise they are blind to the player until that happens. This means that when you’re top down you only have to deal with the enemies that directly around you, but you can’t see far and might walk or drive into a hive of activity or you can switch to 3rd person and look ahead where you’re going to see what you will eventually encounter but while you’re in that perspective those enemies can see you and know where you’re at and could head to that location. This could make for some crazy strategies playing the game.
At any rate, I think games need more unique play styles since everyone seems to play it safe these days repeating what people know and are familiar with instead of forcing them to adapt to new play styles which are super rewarding and novel.
